Dr. David Duffy:

What I will say is similar to some extent to my answer to Deputy Ó Laoghaire's question earlier.

The three main issues the Senator hit on are vitally important in the area. One is being able to access CAMHS and adult mental health services as we are also talking about tertiary education. Any comments I make of CAMHS, adult mental health, NEPS or any other service, is not the fault of the staff. They are simply dealing with waiting lists that are utterly unmanageable, but timely referrals are needed.

Pastoral staff in both colleges and schools are vitally important as the Senator rightly referenced. We have many reports of guidance counsellors in schools doing a fantastic job often in difficult circumstances. My colleague from the ASTI mentioned that some schools do not have a whole-time-equivalent guidance counsellor. Many cases are referred to us of guidance counsellors holding on to students who have levels of need that the guidance counsellor knows she or he cannot manage. There is nowhere to refer the student to so it is the case that holding on is better than doing nothing. This is not a criticism of the staff in NEPS who do a fantastic job but they are swamped. NEPS staff members need to be on the ground with individual students. A trickle down model serves a purpose but it does not solve the problem.

Third, as the Senator stated very well, training needs to be available to all teachers. There is a teacher supply crisis and releasing people for training will be difficult but it must be available to all teachers. Continuous professional development, CPD, is vital, but no matter how much CPD we do in this area, teachers will still not be psychiatrists or psychologists. In the past few days we encountered an issue about assessment of needs. No matter how much training teachers do, they will not be occupational therapists. Therefore we still need to be able to refer students to experts and as many services as possible need to be close to schools so students can be referred, but I must re-emphasise that services must be available in a timely manner. Telling students that the local service will help them in 18 months time is not ideal.