Neasa Hourigan (Dublin Central, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

Chair, I confirm that I am in my office in Leinster House because I have a sick child on my couch.

I thank the delegation for being here. I thank the Department's staff for working so hard on this legislation, progressing it and engaging with the Seanad Bill that came through. It is worthwhile saying at this stage that this is incredibly complex legislation and the Department must strike the right balance. As much as I want this legislation to be enacted urgently, and we must seek to have this done by Christmas, I am very aware that we must be quite delicate with the legislation and make sure that we do this work correctly.

I want to discuss the reality of enforcement and, funnily enough, I want to talk about the word "curtilage". Any architect in the State will know the word well as it is very well set out in our conservation legislation. I have a concern around how we might treat the grounds and decide where 100 m begins, and how the service provider engages on the issue. Many of our older health service buildings are on land that looks almost institutional so they have gates and a carpark. So if we set this at the entrance then 100 m will still allow people to be directly outside a hospital, for example. That is the nature of our estates and healthcare buildings in this country. It might be worth looking at the definition of curtilage in other legislation but certainly it is meaningful in terms of planning and other issues.

I would like to talk a little bit about that.

I would also like the witnesses to talk about the responsibility of the healthcare provider in deciding where the 100 m is, even with the curtilage or the front door. Are healthcare providers or GPs expected to draw a line on the ground, as when we were queueing for a shot during Covid, or will the Garda take on that role? Within that, I also have a concern around some of the requirements if service providers continue to see people outside. I am wary of anything that relies on a service provider to report because, ultimately, the service provider staff might have their own opinions about these issues. A lot of responsibility would be put on the service provider. Perhaps we could start with all of these issues around the implementation part of this.

I am glad that the HSE is talking with An Garda Síochána. At the beginning, groups like Together for Safety have been engaged in this conversation. There has been a statement from the Garda that we do not need this legislation and I am interested to see whether maybe it cannot be enforced, which is an issue. I wonder where that change happened. I am asking all of the questions at once and hopefully the witnesses can answer them.

I also want to know about inclusive language within the text. I would like to see a recognition of pregnant people rather than just women. This affects families and people of every group.

The Department has outlined this a little bit but I would like to know about the definition of "intimidation, harassment and aggression". There is a gender issue here. I believe it came up in conversations with the Garda regarding what people define for themselves as intimidation. Often it is not engagement in any way. One does not have to reach out to somebody or offer them a leaflet to intimidate them. One can intimidate another person just by being a presence. I would like quite a broad interpretation of that. Under head 6, is there engagement about persistent harassment on social media for service providers, many of whom are on social media? I am sorry that I have thrown some tough questions at the officials.