Mr. Brendan Crowley:

It would be fair to say that the semi-State companies, Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann or whoever, find themselves in the same position as us. It is a universal problem and they have exactly the same issues as we do. They have their own driver training modules or schools, as we do across the industry. We have engaged with the education and training boards, ETBs. There has always been a programme in place for HGV drivers and bus drivers, although it is not necessarily available all the time. It is a demand-driven programme. These programmes have been largely aimed at people who are unemployed or in long-term unemployment and are set out over 26 weeks. The problem we had with them is that we have to question the shape of any programme that is run for circa 26 weeks and involves only 16 or 17 hours of driving. I am not for one moment saying all of the other stuff is not important. We have managed to reduce that to a ten-day pilot programme for existing employees in the industry with the education and training boards. That is about upskilling people who are already in the organisation. Most bus companies run lean operations so we do not have lots of people in our organisations who need that programme. If the Senator was to ask me-----