Mr. John Curtis:

The Senator made some interesting points. The issue of the graduate exodus troubles us because on one level we are looking for extra provision in the arena of guidance counselling but we know we have a teacher shortage as well so where will we get these guidance counsellors? It can be planned. We know the surge in pupil numbers in post-primary education will peak in 2023, so we would imagine that perhaps we should be planning now for the fact that we will have extra teachers on board at that stage. The graduate exodus is perplexing because we do not know where all the teachers are going. If you look at the figures we have from the Teaching Council for registered practitioners, there are many more teachers on the books than we have in play. This year it has not been as acute as it might have been last year, but we need to do a little bit of thinking on where we might get the extra guidance counsellors from. We would say that some of the training courses we have need to be augmented and we would say the financial assistance for teachers who might want to engage in guidance counselling courses should be put in place. We would have some solutions that we would be able to suggest in that arena but it is an issue for us. Even in preparing the submission, the duality we came across was that in talking to the Department, we acknowledged that there is a teacher shortage. If we bring down the pupil-teacher ratio at this stage in post-primary schools it will cause us difficulties. We should be planning forward two or three years. If the Senator looks at our pre-budget submission he will see what our thinking in that arena is.

Schools do not necessarily need to be bigger in the context of giving schools the provision to help students in this sphere. We made the point on extra help for schools around deputy principal provision. If the school leader can be freed up as much as possible from some of the administrative duties that the principal will have, the care will trickle down and the principal will be able to spend more time looking after the students in his or her care. Some kind of change and help for principals around deputy principal provision is hugely important. When you talk about chaplaincy you are making a point and we have made that point to the Department in a number of engagements. Schools in our sector do not have chaplains and it would be a fantastic addition to the school system if we could enhance that provision and give it to schools that do not have it. There would be great value in that.

The SPHE programme will be augmented as we move through it. The training that will be given to teachers in the SPHE space will allow them to deal with issues such as relationships in a fundamental way. I am very hopeful that the new SPHE guidelines will help us in this regard. On the senior cycle, we all hope that the demands on our students might change over the years. A great deal of work is needed in that space in the coming years but we are all of the view that we need to bring in senior cycle reform to help the mental well-being of our students.