Lynn Ruane (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. There is nothing in them that I disagree with. If anything, I will just further emphasise them. As this is pre-legislative scrutiny and officials from the Department are here in an observer role, I want to ensure that those key messages are made very clear in any report the committee submits. I have tried to capture the common themes in the presentations and I would like to put them on the record. If anyone disagrees with my understanding of what has come across, I ask them to say so. I want to make sure the message is clear to the observers as regards what needs to be addressed in the heads of Bill.

As regards heads 6 and 8, this matter is supported by the IPRT, IHREC and Dr. Garrihy and comes up in all of the presentations. The Bill does not ensure financial and operational independence of the IPD and NPMs, including separate financial resources and staff. That would be necessary. If anyone disagrees with how I am capturing these points, they should correct me. There is a need for adequate resourcing to support the development and infrastructure of the IPDs and MPNs. That the IPD and the MPNs should be accountable to the Oireachtas and not the Department is what I understand from most of the contributions. Currently, the Minister for Justice has a role in appointing staff to the IPD, which obviously interferes with its independence. I might return to the question of staffing at the end with a question on the expertise needed by staff.

Another matter I have picked up on is the conflict in the context of the chief inspector being located within the budget of the Department of Justice. In addition, there is a need for further clarification within the heads of the powers, obligations, expertise and resources of the IPDs, as well as the privileges, resources, roles and responsibilities granted to the NPMs. The legal basis is missing. One of the witnesses may wish to comment on that specifically.

As regards the functions of the chief inspector under head 8, my understanding is that the legal minimum duration should be stipulated in the context of prisons receiving an inspection. The chief inspector should be empowered to engage with external experts who could support inspections carried out by the IPD. Investigative reports into a serious adverse event or death should be laid before the Oireachtas. The heads of Bill do not clarify how the voices of detainees would be heard during these investigations.

Those are just some of the issues that concern me; there are many others. I wanted to pick up on some of the key points so that they do not get lost in the wider conversation in respect of reform, prisons, sentences and all that type of thing. I want to focus on the heads of Bill and what is needed therein.

Mr. Kelly referred to the continuum of detention. I am prone to getting a little bit philosophical sometimes but I make the point that poverty is also a place of detention, so that somehow starts a little earlier. As regards being able to investigate, there is a bare minimum of human rights, such as being free from torture or inhumane treatment and so on, but does that begin to vary depending on the needs of the person who ends up in prison? To take the ageing population, for example, or those with undiagnosed autism, ADHD or dyspraxia, there are all these combinations of things that interact with people becoming engaged in the criminal justice situation in the first place but it would not ordinarily be captured. I want to tie that back into the point on the type of expertise that would be needed in the context of inspections because we have to consider the needs of the individual rather than just the infrastructure and the basic stuff that somebody might be looking for in an inspectorate.

It is usually better for me to direct my questions to individual witnesses but I have not done so on this occasion because any of our guests could probably contribute equally on each of the matters I have raised. Do we look at inspection differently when we look at the needs of the individual within the larger system of the prison? I would love to hear discussion on that. If any of our guests disagree with my further points, I want to make sure they get into the report in terms of recommending changes.