Professor Peter Shirlow:

The reason we are here is for a conversation. It is important to recognise that. The 39%-39% vote and the point raised by Senator Ó Donnghaile have shown the decline of unionism, which is correct, but it has also shown a decline in non-constitutional politics. That is a point for conversation. What is happening to identity on this island?

The fundamental problem is that we cannot have a stereotypical depiction of who we are. There is a tendency in Irish society to have a much more stereotypical description of who we are and who nationalists feel that they are. There is an understanding in nationalist republicanism in that one has Sinn Féin, the SDLP, Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Labour Party. One has nationalism in many forms and nobody ever says nationalism or republicanism is divided. However, there are three unionist parties in the North and they are seen as divided. The way in which we and the community from which we come are spoken about is always as though we are something separate. We have come here today, especially in supporting the shared island initiative, as this State's neighbours.

The work that Mr. Dougherty and Mr. Moore are doing in Derry is breaking down sectarianism. The work that Ms Sugden and Ms Grundle did in Stormont, when Ms Sugden was the justice minister and Ms Grundle was a special adviser, was about bringing new and innovative ideas into our society. We keep going back to the comments about the unionist votes declining without considering that what is happening is that the centre ground is growing and something is changing.

The data from the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, tell us about paying to go to the doctor and taking out £1,400 per year. The rents are much higher in the South. Sinn Féin's argument is that it wants to change this State. It wants to dramatically shift this State into a different economic model. Many of the arguments that Sinn Féin makes are ones that unionists make. There are things which are constitutionally different but we have the same perspective. Everybody here so far has explained themselves as being from working-class backgrounds and said that class is important. That is critically important.

The census is also important. The headlines were written before the data came out. The old joke goes that somebody broke into the Kremlin and stole next week's election results. There was a 0.6% growth in the Catholic population. There were the nuances I talked about a second ago. Not every Catholic is Irish. Many people who put themselves down as Irish or versions of Irish are also Protestant. The complexity of this debate is very simple: we cannot solve a 100-year-old problem with a 100-year-old type of debate. My grandmothers could not vote on partition. People from sexual minorities could not express their sexuality at the time of partition. Most people did not go to higher level education. Most of us would have parents or grandparents who left school when they were young teenagers. Why are we using the same debates and arguments when this island has changed dramatically?

I appeal to Senators Black and Currie. At the events I come along to and organise, we are trying to have this conversation in many different ways. If they want to know how we should proceed with this, they should stop telling me I am wrong and ignoring the data I put on the table and the arguments I make. I do not expect a republican to change his or her perspective. I work with republicans, as we have all done, to build a better society. One should stop telling us we are wrong and start to facilitate what we are saying. A conversation is about getting to a point where we enter a dialogue. When people say that unionists do not come into the room to take part in that dialogue, I put it to them that they do not take part because they are told there is only one outcome to this conversation, which is that we will have a united Ireland. That is the point made by Ms Sugden. It is said that the data are complex. According to surveys from universities, 30% of people in Northern Ireland want unity, but the percentage falls when the questions are asked about paying for it. If nationalists will not engage with that by saying it is a reality that nationalism understands and a challenge for them, we are not having a conversation. I do not expect anybody to walk out of the room and have a different perspective. I expect that person to go away and sharpen up his or her arguments. I expect myself to go out the door and sharpen up my arguments or I expect that one day the person might persuade me. That is always open with us. If the society of all societies is created, why would I not want my children and grandchildren to share in that future?

This is not about identity for many people. Gerry Carlile goes out on 12 July. I do not. It is not for any other reason other than it is not my cup of tea. I also live in England and it is hard to get there. The point about this is that it is important. I am told at every debate we have, at Féile an Phobail and elsewhere, that the facts do not matter. If the facts do not matter, I do not want to put that in front of future generations, when we have already suffered enough on this island, through violence, mayhem, economic collapse and a cost-of-living crisis. I do not want them to confront that. I want them to confront the reality that we might disagree and there is validity in each argument. We should debate this out to see who creates the better society. I hope this is a winner for everybody on the island.