Ms Claire Sugden:

I thank the Senators for their questions. This relates to the topic around the engagement and conversation we have on the constitutional future. Given how it is being currently presented, we are already prejudicing the outcome in that it is going to be towards a united Ireland. That is something that needs to be reflected upon, because as a unionist I am pursuing the agenda of our place being within the United Kingdom. If we are going to have a conversation it must be one that respects both traditions as they currently are, which is the bedrock of the Good Friday Agreement. It is based on self-determination and where we are now until that changes. My suggestion is that it is not about the constitutional future of this island, it is about the constitutional future of these islands, which takes into account the United Kingdom. From an Irish perspective, I recognise that the relationship with the United Kingdom has been difficult because of Brexit. Ireland needs the UK as much as the UK needs Ireland. As unionists, we must recognise that. For me, it is about interdependency rather than looking towards a predetermined outcome. Even in the subject line of this meeting today, the subject is the constitutional future of the island of Ireland. What if we never get to that point? Are we having a conversation about something that may never happen? Equally, if we have a conversation about these islands, then we are already saying that we care about everyone. That is something the committee might want to reflect on.

Again, much of the conversation has probably been stimulated more from the nationalist perspective. It is almost suggesting that a united Ireland is inevitable. That flies in the face of the Good Friday Agreement's self-determination principle. I ask people to again reflect on that. Equally, if we maintain our current status quowhere we stay within the UK, Ireland as a jurisdiction has a big interest in that, not because of North-South relations but also because of how we can benefit one another. I have no doubt that we can, and I do not think we exploit that as much as we should. The conversation must be beyond the island. It must be about these islands because that is what the Good Friday Agreement was about. It was not just about North-South, it was east-west as well. That is something we ought to talk about.

The unionist vote declining comes back to those identity labels that I talked about in my opening statement. I am an independent, designated unionist. I was described at the start of the conversation as an independent unionist. Members of the SDLP are not described as SDLP-nationalist or members of Sinn Féin as Sinn Féin-nationalist. Perhaps it is assumed because we know that is what it is.

I very much get these labels have been put on me by the media and others as a way of indicating what independence means. I am very clear to set out that I am not affiliated with a political party, but that does not mean I do not have opinions. I am a feminist but I am not described as an independent feminist. I am in the middle ground. Sometimes I am left of centre and sometimes I am right of centre, but I am not described in that way. We need to look beyond the fundamental principles and recognise what that means.

Why is the unionist vote declining? I think unionism is politically represented by a far-right-wing party in Northern Ireland. There are electoral reasons for that, rather than reasons of identity or representation. People are sometimes a bit frustrated that some of the left-right politics is conflated with unionism or indeed nationalism on the other side. We have to decouple the two. I do not have a home because there is not really a middle-ground unionist party. That is why I sit as an independent. I do not think the unionist vote is declining because there are more people who do not want to be within the union. I think it is declining because people do not want vote necessarily for those parties and they may be moving towards parties that talk about other things.