Mr. Brian Dougherty:

I do not have much to add except maybe in terms of some of the references to the practicalities of dialogue and discussion. As Professor Shirlow alluded to, Protestants do engage. We really appreciate platforms like this, but this is not the first platform like this we have had. I was in Dublin on Tuesday to appear before the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence. That happens all the time. We are always willing to engage when we are asked. It is not only a recent constitutional debate recent, however. We have also been having these discussions in civic society for ten or 15 years.

In terms of the practicalities of it, we have to be creative and innovative. We have to speak to all elements of civic society that are part of the discussion. A key problem to date has been that much of this debate and a lot of this narrative and discussion is going through political unionism and nationalism. Civic unionism is not getting an adequate voice. In addition, we have always found, and no disrespect to Senator Ó Donnghaile, that much of the honesty comes through the political system in the South. In any conversation we have through whatever method, and myself, the Chairman and others have talked about this on numerous occasions, we find much more energy for and transparency around the debate.

The basis of our organisation and the work we do with the Londonderry Bands Forum and the North West Cultural Partnership is about attracting that hard-to-reach grassroots voice. There are 664 marching band in Northern Ireland with 30,000 musicians. It is the biggest artistic musical movement in the whole of western Europe. Whenever people think of loyalist bands, however, what do they think of? We use the analogy all the time of two young people standing at a bus stop in Northern Ireland. A young person holding a bodhrán and wearing a Catholic school uniform - because all the schools are still very much divided in Northern Ireland - is called a musician. A young person wearing a Protestant school uniform holding a flute is called a bigot.

The problem we have in engaging in debate is changing those negative perceptions people have of the people with whom we should be debating. What we do as an organisation through debates and events like our fringe festival and the youth conference we are having next month is get that bottom tier or third tier, as they are seen within our society, engaged in our conversation. We do it through bands and elements of culture such as Highland dance. We do it through aspects of society that people do not get an opportunity to engage with.

We should ask these young people and whoever we think needs to be at the table. I am pretty certain most people will say "Yes". Of course, in reciprocating that welcome, members should come up and see the organisations. There is a hugely thriving, professional, progressive civic unionist sector in Northern Ireland. It is fed through the mainstream community sector but more importantly, it is fed through cultural organisations like bands, sports clubs and others. Members should come up and listen to them. Do not feed the narrative of political unionism.