Paul Donnelly (Dublin West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Go raibh maith agat Leas-Chathaoirleach. I thank the Minister of State for coming here today. It has been a really useful process and shows the value of the committee. The pre-legislative scrutiny has been really useful, particularly for me anyway in getting my head around this. On the Charities Regulator's input last week, many people were really reassured listening to how the regulator operates, how supportive it is to charities and that it does not get the heavy hand out first in the first instance. Everyone was concerned at first that the legislation seemed very heavy-handed but there was that reassurance that it is not the way that the regulator operates at the moment and in fact it is all about support. It is about getting in there and supporting the charities, dealing with all the issues that arise that may be of concern and working through all of those. The statistics given were very reassuring.

There was a note that came through from the Charities Regulator on the Irish Council for Civil Liberties relating to a conversation we had last week after the meeting when we were saying that we have the legislation and know the way the Charities Regulator has operated over the past while, that they operate on the basis of the law. It was interesting that just this week we said people come and go and if another person comes in they will operate on the basis of the legislation that is in place. It does not make decisions based on guidance documents, there has been no change to the law and to how the Charities Regulator makes its decisions. The importance of getting this right is reinforced on the basis of the conversations we had last week and also this process even though the evidence from the Charities Regulator last week was that it is done in an extremely supportive manner with this current regulator. There is always a concern that further down the road a person will interpret this in the way that it was originally interpreted, that it is like using a hammer to crack a nut. That is what has been said on an ongoing basis and that is why we have been so intent on getting this right. It is important that we do get this right.

The other issue I would like to raise is around the acceptance of somebody as a charity. I looked at the legal requirements which state: "the prevention or relief of poverty or economic hardship; the advancement of education; the advancement of religion or any other purpose that is of benefit to the community ... the legislation provides further detail on what is deemed a charitable purpose under this heading". I have noted, and someone has sent me details, of a person who was registered as a charity which I would deem does not cover any of those aspects in any shape or form whatsoever. There is a tenuous link to religion but from what we can read from the reports would be extremely homophobic, extremely racist, anti Covid-19 and covers other areas I would deem offensive. They have been given charitable status. In this legislation is there anything that will change that would enable the regulator to investigate people who apply for charitable status? If a complaint is made, is it sufficiently rigorous that the charitable status of somebody I certainly would not see conforming to the requirements of a charity would be removed? Do we need something in this legislation that is stronger for the Charities Regulator to ensure people like these groups that I think should not have charitable status do not get it?