John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

That part of it disappoints me a lot. In big organisations, one sometimes has to take steps to make sure the organisation is moving in the desired direction. It sometimes takes an intervention far greater than just cajoling. I would have thought there would be competition among civil servants to make their Departments the key players or the models to follow. I do not get the impression that is the case.

I am trying to examine the role of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. I would have thought its role would be far more authoritative and that it would if not dictate, force through the agenda of change and technological transformation in each area. I do not see the same pace of change everywhere. I would have thought the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform would insist on that pace of change so that those different Departments and agencies were reporting on all fronts, including financial and administrative, and in respect their governance role, which is also important. Am I wrong?