Mr. Bernard Gloster:

Turning to joined-up thinking, I have been a public servant for 34 years and it remains the interminable challenge to the State. I refer to the Holy Grail of integration. I certainly subscribe and sign up to it. I suppose some people might say that when people change their position, their position changes. We all have responsibilities to try to meet. I do not think anyone does not have joined-up thinking deliberately. It is just hard to-----