Ruairí Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

It is incredibly difficult to be in two places at once and I was holding out for an answer that did not come. I hold the Taoiseach responsible for that. I thank the witnesses, particularly Commissioner Jourová, and I acknowledge her kind words about the tragedy in Creeslough. Ireland is a small place and the Europe we are now in is also a small place and we are connected in many ways.

A consistent argument would have taken place on the issue of the rule of law and, fairly or unfairly, it would have been argued that the rule of law only applies when it is Poland or Hungary. It is vital that it applies across the board. If we look at the specific recommendation on Ireland it is not anything that a sensible person should have a particular difficulty with. We all know about the issues we have had in recent times with judicial appointments and around litigation costs. One must have access to justice. If justice is not affordable and timely then one does not have access to justice; it is as simple as that. There has already been mention of the issues with An Bord Pleanála but we have the ongoing reality or perception in this State of the revolving door between big lobby groups and politics and we need to be able to break that. We need to be able to break it in reality and we even need to be seen to break it because it is one of those scenarios that does not help with the continuity of democracy as sometimes others can use that notion and make an attack. Sometimes there is a case where there is a greater level of connection for those who are perceived as the elites. On some level we need to remove that and we also need to remove the argument on it. All of us have spoken many times about what needs to happen if we are talking about SIPO. There is no difficulty there and we know what the issues are, including ensuring we have the proper media framework and protection for journalists in place.

I have no difficulty with the proposals and it is necessary that we follow through on it. The Commissioner's remit is quite wide so I will throw a number of questions at her and as soon as she gets fed up answering them she can just stop. I will accept that seeing as the committee was good enough to facilitate me in going away and not getting my answer.

I will start with the rule of law issues. These are the rule of law issues that probably held up until we entered a new phase with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It seemed to be the case that until the rule of law issues were dealt with accession was off the table. Whatever people may have said publicly that was the name of the game. We also have the conditionality regulations and now we have some leverage in ensuring we have compliance. I also accept that countries have to make a determination on whether they want to be part of a European Union that has to be about fairness, democracy and all those societal improvements that have been made in time, or whether they want the alternative, which is plain to see on the international stage.

Where does Ms Jourová perceive the conversations and relationships as being? I imagine they are still particularly bad with Hungary. Where are they with Poland? There has probably been a considerable amount of exchange over and back at this stage.