Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will try to answer every question if I can. I will answer Deputy Berry's eight questions first. I certainly hope we will have time to debate this in the Dáil. As Minister for Defence, the more we can debate defence issues, the better. We have to ensure that there is a realistic understanding of why defence matters, why we need to resource it properly, why the work of the commission is arguably the most strategic report that has been produced for the defence sector since independence and why we need to implement it in full and, therefore, the answer to the Deputy's first question is "Yes".

The funding will be €1.5 billion at 2022 prices. I insisted on defence budgets being effectively linked to inflation. Given what is happening in Ukraine and other parts of the world, we will see significant increases in the cost of defence equipment. The Deputy will know that only too well. Virtually every country in the EU is increasing defence budgets significantly. Many of them have shared defence equipment, weapons and ammunition with Ukraine and they will want to rebuild stocks. The last thing I wanted to sign up for was to have funding of €1.5 billion by 2028 and to find that it was lower than what we have today in real value. We have agreed with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform that we will take the prices before the Ukraine war started and before the commission reported, which was in January 2022. We will use the defence procurement prices in January 2022 as a benchmark. We have agreed the defence budget will be €1.5 billion in those prices.

I will give the Deputy an educated guesstimate. Even with a modest figure of 4% to 6% inflation, though I think it will be higher than that, then we will need to spend between €1.8 billion and €2 billion on defence budgets by 2028. It may be even higher, though we will have to wait and see. That will be determined by circumstance, inflation and so on. We have pegged it clearly to a point in time when we knew the prices. That protects the defence budget in a way that is helpful.

The Deputy asked about tabling what the budgets would look like. It would have been unreasonable for me to ask the Government, particularly the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, to agree exact figures for each year over the next six years. The Government would not agree to that precedent because many other Departments would demand the same. We have a clear commitment regarding where we need to be by 2028 and we need incremental steps to get there. When what I hope and expect will be an accepted pay deal is added, it will be worth €47 million or maybe slightly higher or lower. It has to be finalised with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform but that will be the approximate impact of the agreement on both pay and pensions. Adding the €67 million of extra expenditure comes to a total of approximately €115 million extra in one year. There has never been such an increase in the defence budget that I can point to.

There is a capacity issue in the first couple of years of getting the numbers to where we need them to be, according to the commission's report, in recruitment and in the capacity to deliver capital investment, whether it is for new ships, airplanes, APC fleets, or anything else. The procurement lead-in times will mean that some capital investment will be towards the end of that six-year period rather than the front. Given that, increasing our overall spending on defence by more than €100 million in the first year is not a bad start. I would have taken more if I could. It signals that we are trying to address the commission's report seriously.

The detailed reports that I get about what is happening in Ukraine are depressing. The loss of life there has been extraordinary. The resilience, courage and success of the Ukrainian military in recent weeks has been extraordinary. The Ukrainians are on the front foot. They are gaining ground and retaking parts of Ukraine that were lost to Russia. They are, unfortunately, uncovering atrocities as they do that. We will continue to support Ukraine's efforts in that regard. I hope Russia is not willing to use weapons that many of us regard as completely unacceptable and off-limits to ever use, in an effort to save face or try to change momentum on the battlefield. The world would respond to that in a significant way should Russia do that. I hope we will not see the Kremlin making such decisions.

Regarding cultural transformation, the Deputy made a distinction regarding the overarching theme. I know he read the commission's report. There are three or four chapters dealing with human resource management in the Defence Forces. That is not an accident, but because we are not managing people as well as need to, first, to keep them in the Defence Forces and, second, to get the diversity that we want and need in the Defence Forces. In particular, we need to increase the number of women to a double digit percentage and then beyond that. Human resource management, how people are paid, how complaints are dealt with, how allowances are applied, the structure of recruitment and retention campaigns, promotions and transparency about them, and linking that in with a command and control structure, since this has to function as a military, is a significant challenge. That is why cultural transformation and how we manage people is such a big theme.

I take the point that capability was a significant exposure. It was not a big surprise for me; I suspect it was not a surprise for other people who follow defence issues. Having capacity constraints and gaps pointed out in such a blunt, clear and stark manner, as the Chairman said, has been helpful for me in getting the Government and Cabinet to sign off on an investment plan which will change much of that.

We have approached a number of people about the role of an independent chair but they have not been able to do it because of other commitments. I hope to have that position filled soon. I have a number of people in mind. It is an important position. I need to ensure that the Defence Forces and many others, including the Department, will trust that the chair is genuinely independent of the system and able to assess progress in delivering on the goals we are setting ourselves in a fair and blunt manner. I hope to have that position filled in the next few weeks. That independent group has met on a temporary basis, chaired by the Chief of Staff and the Secretary General, but that is just a temporary situation.

I do not want to give the Deputy an exact date for changes to pay and pay allowances. We are making some progress with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. As the Deputy will be aware, the Minister for Defence cannot just decide to change allowances even when a commission report recommends it.

We have to get agreement from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. As I said, we are making some good progress on some of those areas, particularly around the military service allowance and so on. Hopefully, people who have entered the Defence Forces in their first few years will see the benefit of that soon.

By the way, I will just say that I share the frustration about the pandemic bonus payment. To promise that in February and still not have it delivered for some people who will clearly qualify for it at the start of October is really not where we need to be.