Dr. Martina Devlin:

Hybridity is an idea close to my heart. Several Senators raised it. We cannot expect people to stop being unionists even if there is a united Ireland. That is like asking people to change their identity entirely, which is not logical, fair or inclusive. We need to show unionists that their distinctiveness would be respected in a united Ireland, not swallowed up, and not tolerated grudgingly. It should be given scope.

Understanding and appreciating someone else's symbolic icons does not topple your own. There is room for both. The answer lies in the Good Friday Agreement, which can be reverse engineered to encompass the island as a whole. That could be used to make space for hybridity just as in Northern Ireland people have the right to define yourself as Irish, British, European, one or all three as you so choose. That can be reversed into a united Ireland with constitutional protections for those identities. That is really important.

It is an enormous opportunity because we are not just talking about people who think of themselves as British and Irish or British-or-Irish; we are talking about Irish Nigerians or Irish Polish people, Irish Chinese people and the same protections ought to be offered there. This is an enormous opportunity. Of course the thing about the Constitution, and indeed the Republic, is that it is a living document. It needs to constantly evolve and be improved.

On Senator Black's points, we should not think in terms of cultural superiority but cultural equality. That means making space for 12 July, for example, as a national holiday. I would love to learn how to play the Lambeg drum. I might not be able to lift it but I would like to have a go at it. These symbols are not threatening any more.

If I might address Reverend Paisley directly, we can learn from each others symbols. Both sides of the house used to play those drums once upon a time before the Troubles. There are opportunities to respect each other's culture and identity in a really genuine way and not in a box-ticking way. I heard his father preach after the Omagh bomb in 1998. I sneaked into a little Free Presbyterian church; I think it was in Pomeroy but it was definitely outside Omagh. I got lost on the highways and byways getting there. I stood outside where I was just going to listen. A nice man with white gloves, a suit and very respectably dressed for church whooshed me inside and sat me down beside some ladies with their hymn books. I had to participate then or I would have been outed, although I am sure they knew right well. However, I have never forgotten the address he gave to the congregation. What was key about it is that he did not know that there was anyone from my background, which can probably be guessed from the look of me with my green jacket, red hair, freckles and my name. He did not know that there were people like me there. He thought that he was addressing a funeral after the Omagh bomb in the Presbyterian community. He said to that congregation that a mother's love is a mother's love and a mother's loss is a mother's loss, irrespective of whether she is Catholic or Protestant. I thought that showed leadership.

What I would like to say to everyone in this Chamber and especially the political class here, because it has an important role to play, is that leadership is needed from the political class. Senator Boylan asked for some information on that and I think Senator Ó Donnghaile did too. We need to start by establishing an independent body to consider the case, reporting its findings within a specified timeframe. It should be cross-party, cross-Border, with Irish, British and EU membership, along with representatives from civil society. We want a team of people working together to plan how reunification might be delivered in a logical, sustainable way. When we have that information, then we go to those people that I was talking about whom I meet in places like Bangor and Belfast and around the North who come from a culturally unionist background and who are not, as I said, afraid of the conversation despite what some of their leaders are staying; they just want to know what the plan is.