Mr. Owen Reidy:

Those were interesting, important questions. I will try to take them in the round and not to be too long-winded. In response to Senator Currie, the question presupposes that ICTU is advocating for a united Ireland. We are neutral on the issue because we represent workers across Northern Ireland who vote for all parties and none, who identify as British, Irish or Northern Irish, and our growing international workforce, though it is not growing enough because of the state of the economy and because some do not feel welcome enough. As an organisation that is interested in social change, we want change today. We do not see it as being dependent on the constitutional issue. It is a fundamental issue. We want to be part of the debate.

I would like to read Dr. Martina Devlin's submission because I would say she captures the identity issue well. I will give an analogy. There are many strikes in Northern Ireland at the moment. Senator Ó Donnghaile will know the council areas only too well as a native of Belfast. When it comes to identity, we look at people in a linear, one-dimensional way. It has to be multifaceted. People on the picket line represent various unions. One might be a DUP voter, another a Sinn Féin voter, and others may be everything in between. One may say that it is a disgrace that devolution has collapsed and another may say that the DUP is right to stay out until the protocol is fixed. What unites them is they are frustrated about the cost-of-living crisis and they want a pay increase. That is incoherent and inconsistent for some people. To me, as a trade unionist who has operated in Northern Ireland for the past six years, with 18 years previously in the Republic of Ireland, it is not inconsistent. It is what it is. It is part of people's identities. What people here are trying to do and to build is important. We cannot just categorise people by how they vote, whether it is with regard to identity, cultural or socioeconomic issues. They have many identities. We need to make sure that we do not fall into the linear argument of asking if people are for or against something and, if they are against it, deciding maybe they should be coaxed to be for it.

A couple of points were raised about what we need to see happen. We need to see them happen today, whether it is in one jurisdiction or two. The UK and Republic of Ireland shamefully have one thing in common. We produced a report that we cited with a link in our submission to the committee. It is called, No Going Back – A New Deal Towards a Safe and Secure Future for All. We still spend too little on public services per person in the UK and the Republic of Ireland. We talk about wanting European services, but we do not have European taxes. Employers in Northern Ireland pay 41% on national insurance and labour taxes compared with rates in the rest of Europe. Employers in this jurisdiction pay 48%. People like Danny McCoy, the head of IBEC, say that we need a bigger state. If we have learned anything from Covid, it should be that collective solidarity is key and that the state has to be adequately resourced, with people paying their fair share. To be fair, in the Republic of Ireland, the tax system for workers is progressive. When people earn more, they pay more. It has become less progressive in the UK because of what Mr. Kwarteng did with the 45% tax rate.

The social wage needs to be addressed and fundamentally changed. That is not predicated on whether it is one jurisdiction or two. Some people would say that it would be inevitable if we had one with the right government. Other people would say it would be addressed if the Labour Party in Britain was in government. The constitutional issue is separate to that and runs in parallel. Workers cannot wait for a better future or for social justice being dependent on constitutional change, nor can the status quo persist.

Citizens' assemblies have worked well in the Republic of Ireland. They have been excellent and shown in many cases that the people are ahead of the political class to some degree. I do not know how we would do it on an all-island basis. My concern about Northern Ireland would be that certain people would just absent themselves from the process and I would wonder if it was a true reflection of the dynamic.

The building blocks are part of the architecture that we have all signed up to, which is the Good Friday Agreement. That is the architecture for whatever the future holds. We should not be fearful of it.

We should not talk about a united Ireland as if it is a point in time to reach. Society constantly evolves. I do not mean to constantly look at Senator Currie since I am talking to everybody and trying to address all the questions. Society evolves and we need to improve as we go along. Whether we have a united Ireland or the current situation, workers have to make the best of it. It behoves the political class to do its bit to help us to do that.

I am sorry if I went on a bit.