Mr. Gerry Light:

Yes, and I am not entirely sure why that is the case. The important point is that it exists. We must recognise that very high numbers of workers are on low pay and the State must intervene. I do not subscribe to the concept that any job is better than no job. I know the Deputy is not advocating it, and he has a particular view, but if we get into that space, we very quickly have to start to deal with potential exploitation and indeed compulsion in respect of people being forced to take up work. Work should always be attractive enough to invite people to participate in the labour market. My colleagues and I presented the statistics earlier. We still have a high level of low pay in this country. As a practising trade union official and a low pay commissioner for six years, I have always had huge sympathy for the challenges faced by businesses and small businesses in particular. We try to take that on board. Measures are available to protect them. Notwithstanding what one of the previous contributors said about a reluctance to go to the Labour Court to state they are unable to pay, that provision is available. It is a considerable safety net but one that is rarely used. I would also point out to the commission that, contrary to the view expressed by the Deputy, research does not support the position that employers who find themselves in challenging situations either reduce the number of staff or staff hours. Since the introduction of the Employment (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2018, employers are required to afford workers hours they have established over a reference period. That is the best answer I can give to the points raised by the Deputy.