Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator McGahon and I thank everybody for their contributions. It is a fascinating discussion. I want to go to the Minister first with what is both a criticism and a question about the core of what he is arguing here today. Repeatedly he has mentioned the war in Ukraine as being at the root of the problems we are facing. We are here today to discuss the supply of electricity and the Minister has repeatedly mentioned it in terms of the price. What is really good about this is that the Minister, Ms Ursula von der Leyen, EirGrid and the CRU have all finally admitted that the market is a problem. The mechanisms in the energy market are a problem. The Minister argues that they need to be reformed. Nobody is questioning whether the market can be reformed or arguing that maybe it is time that states took ownership of this crucial part of society, the supply of energy. I contend that is what needs to be done. However, the Minister is saying that we need to give the question of the price of gas our undivided attention. This undivided attention will be, as has been argued by others, along the lines of separating out the cost of renewables and other forms of energy production from the cost of gas. That is not rocket science. It is, however, how the market has worked up until now so I really welcome the change of heart and the change in approach to the market.

Never once in his speech and not until he was asked directly, did the Minister mention the question of data centres and their energy usage. We are here today to look at what we can do about supply but 14% of our supply is going directly into data centres. Globally, we are an outlier in terms of our approach to this topic. In line with what Senator Higgins has just said, I would argue and put it to the Minister and others here that our policy around facilitating data centres is absolutely insane. It is not just that the Minister has sat down with them and had a discussion and they have looked at back-up generation and this, that and the other. In the here and now, we have given a commitment over the next two to three years to connecting eight mega data centres to the grid, using up another 1.5 GW of energy. This is insane and it has nothing to do with the war in Ukraine or with the price of gas. We are talking about supply and I would like all of our guests to address that. The Minister's solution to the lack of energy coming on stream is to call on people to reduce their use.

He is calling on them to look at different tariffs for when they come home to make the dinner and wash the kids' clothes, to reduce their use and to do things differently. Where is the call on the data centres to reduce their expansion and their use? That is not coming from anywhere. It is unbelievable stuff. The only call is for them to get diesel back-up which, as the Senator has said, flies in the face of our policy to reduce emissions in light of the climate crisis.

I specifically want to ask a question of Mr. Foley from EirGrid. In both his written submission and his replies today, he has said that growing demand is not a problem and that it does not present any kind of crisis. I looked back at the statement EirGrid presented to the committee in May 2021. Data centres were mentioned 16 times as being at the heart of the problem of growing demand. A warning was given that something had to be done. Why has there been a change of heart within the last 12 to 14 months? Data centres were a problem 14 months ago when they were only using 30% of the energy they would demand at their peak and would only add more pressure if they were to use all of it and we have now signed agreements with eight more mega-users. There is something amiss in the policy and in how it is being presented.

The only person I heard admitting that there is a problem is Ms MacEvilly from the CRU. I would like to ask her about that. She said that the growth in demand of 9% in the past five years is a problem. Does she know how this increased demand compares with other countries in Europe or elsewhere? That is important. Are we as much of an outlier in that regard as we are in the way we facilitate the growth of data centres?

As a final point, can we please look at the question of how we are going to deal with the energy crisis and energy prices for ordinary people who will be hanging on our every word today? There is not a single proposal that will give them any comfort as regards what will happen over the winter. I would like to hear something concrete from the Minister, EirGrid and the CRU.