Dr. Patrick Sullivan:

In terms of buy-in, Dr. Fallon spoke about winning hearts and minds. Everyone is on a journey with curriculum change and that was the example of drama. On particularly sensitive topics such as SPHE, RSE, human sexuality, identity, belonging, gender stereotyping, gender norms and so forth, the spectrum of views in the general public is vast. When one thinks about it, deliberation and consultation in this space and working with communities and schools are very important. The NCCA is very much a listening organisation and then a leading organisation in terms of plotting the pathway forward from there. It is understanding the perspectives of stakeholders, communities, parents, children, school leaders and school teachers in regard to what is age and stage appropriate for children to be learning in primary schools and post-primary schools.

There are cautionary tales all around the world on this. Our nearest neighbours in recent years have had mass walkouts and opt-outs from minority faith communities because they were not consulted in the development of the curriculum. They did not feel they had buy-in or ownership of what was being taught in schools. They did not feel they had consented for their children to be taught these things in schools. There were mass walkouts, particularly across those communities in northern England. They will be dealing with the fallout from that for years to come, and that is a cohort of children who, in our eyes, will be suffering in respect of not meeting the rights they have with regard to this very important aspect of education.

In all aspects we want to avoid any such situation. That is about taking time and the research we draw on. It is about the communication and awareness-raising that we build in that regard for parents and the wider public. It is also about winning the hearts and minds of teachers and school leaders to ensure the education is being provided for children at school level, with the resourcing and the provisions, and that the status of the subject in our schools is respected in this regard. That is the piece concerning the hearts and minds that Dr. Fallon was referring to and of which we are very conscious in our work all the time.

Regarding the time, and this may be a side point, the council undertook a comparative analysis review of curriculum timelines across other jurisdictions.

We were asking ourselves the same question about timelines for curriculum development in Ireland. We actually come out quite well in comparative analysis. In many jurisdictions, it takes between six and eight years for curriculum development on a wide-scale change project as well as implementation. Our focus is very much on consensus-building, so that when we do get to the point of implementation into our schools, it is quite smooth and seamless. This ensures that it is impactful at the local level. I might refer to Ms Honan and Mr. Slattery to respond to the questions on CSPE and post-primary level.