Ms Clare Duffy:

This is where you take out your calculator and you get your PhD because you would need a doctorate to answer this question. The closest proxy we have is the number of carers who receive the non-means-tested carer's support grant every year. As we have already said, that figure is 115,000. We know that 91,000 carers receive carer's allowance. They are also getting the carer's support grant. The other people getting the carer's support grant include the 3,000 people who get carer's benefit. There are also children getting the domiciliary care allowance. All of these are double-counted within that 115,000.

Because it is not means-tested, the carer's support grant can be applied for as an individual stand-alone payment for people who do not satisfy the means test for carer's allowance but who satisfy all other criteria such as providing full-time care for someone assessed as being medically in need of such care. On 1 June 2021, 4,363 people applied for that as a stand-alone payment. Peppered throughout the remainder of the year, just over 2,000 other people also applied. Some of those 2,000 applications refer to the previous year. Based on that proxy, we estimate that, if the means test for carer's allowance was abolished in the morning, anywhere between 6,000 and 7,000 people would start to receive carer's allowance.

It should be remembered that, if we abolished that means test in the morning, applicants would still have to satisfy the medical requirement for the provision of full-time care, which is an incredibly high bar. It is the highest medical bar to pass in the social welfare system. Anywhere between 6,000 and 7,000 people would become eligible. That would cost approximately €79 million. However, half of the 91,000 people who receive carer's allowance are on a reduced rate and receive less than a jobseeker's payment, even though they are providing full-time care. You can see why a PhD and a calculator are needed. That half would have to be brought up to the full level. It is not just the €79 million, but the moneys required to bring those applicants up. It is a really important point to leave with the committee that we assume that those people who get carer's allowance get €224 a week but they do not. Half get much less. I know of carers who get €10 or €20 a week.

A question was asked earlier which I forgot to answer. Sr. Bernadette Mac Mahon from the Vincentian Partnership for Social Justice did a report for use earlier this year which looked at the minimum essential standard of living for caring households where complex care is provided. She calculated that the additional cost on those households is €244 per week more than the actual carer's allowance when compared with a similarly composed household where there are no disability or care needs.