Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

I welcome everyone to the meeting. Apologies have been received from the Chair, Deputy Stanley, and from Deputies Alan Kelly, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, James O'Connor and Colm Burke. Please note that in order to limit the risk of spreading Covid-19, the Service encourages all members, visitors and witnesses to continue to wear face masks when moving around the campus or when in close proximity to others, to be respectful of other people’s physical space and to adhere to any other public health advice.

Members of the committee attending remotely must continue to do so from within the precincts of Leinster House. This is due to the constitutional requirement that to participate in public hearings, members must be physically present within the confines of the place where Parliament has chosen to sit.

The Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, is a permanent witness to the committee. He is accompanied by Mr. Mark Brady, deputy director of audit at the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General.

This morning we will engage with officials from the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, with representatives from the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive, HSE, to examine the board's 2020 financial statements. As per the committee's request, the board has provided some information on contractual provisions and claims in respect of the national paediatric hospital, which the committee may wish to examine during the engagement. We are joined in the committee room by the following officials from the board: Mr. David Gunning, chief officer; Mr. Phelim Devine, project director; Dr. Emma Curtis, medical director; and Mr. Jim Farragher, financial manager.

We are also joined by Mr. Derek Tierney, assistant secretary in the health infrastructure division at the Department of Health, and by Mr. Martin McKeith, assistant lead director of the children's hospital project and programme at the HSE.

As usual, I remind all those in attendance to ensure their mobile phones are on silent mode or switched off.

Before we start, I want to explain some limitations to parliamentary privilege and the practice of the Houses as regards reference witnesses may make to other persons in their evidence. As they are within the precincts of Leinster House, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the presentations they make to the committee. This means they have absolute defence against any defamation action for anything they say at the meeting. However, they are expected not to abuse that privilege and it is my duty, as Cathaoirleach, to ensure this privilege is not abused. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks and it is imperative that they comply with such directions.

Members are reminded of the provisions within Standing Order 218 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government, or the merits of the objectives of such policies. Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside of the House or an official either by name or in such a way that will make him or her identifiable.

Before we move to opening statements, I want to address a worrying trend that has been developing in terms of a lack of engagement and an apparent disregard by certain bodies of accountability to the Oireachtas. The vast majority of bodies engage in an open and professional way with the committee, and that is right and proper. This is not out of respect for any members of the committee but out of respect for the Oireachtas. Members of the Houses represent the taxpayer who foot the bill for public bodies' expenditure and the accountability of public bodies to the Oireachtas is a fundamental cornerstone of the democracy in which we live.

Mr. Gunning, you are accountable to the Oireachtas for the board's expenditure and this committee is charged by Dáil Éireann with examining that expenditure and reporting to the Dáil. In order to do so in an informed manner, we request information in advance of meetings. I understand the invitation to the board to attend this meeting issued on 11 May. We requested updates on previous recommendations of this committee to the board to be provided by last Friday, 10 June. To any reasonable person, I think this was a reasonable timeframe. Not only was the information not provided within the timeframe, despite the secretariat following up on a number of occasions, the board waited until 10 June to respond and to say that two of the requests were more appropriate to the Department rather than flagging this in May or liaising with the Department to provide the committee with the information. We are still awaiting the updates to the recommendations made by the committee relating to the board, which were requested on 11 May for this meeting.

The committee also requested other information on contractual provisions and claims on 30 May with a request for a response by 10 June. That information was not provided until late on 14 June and even then, it was presented very poorly, with parts of the information missing and no explanation provided to the committee for the missing information. We also did not receive Mr. Gunning's opening statement, which was requested at least 24 hours before this meeting, until 9 p.m last night. This level of engagement on your part is clearly unsatisfactory. Speaking on behalf of the committee, I trust that in the future, there will be a significant improvement.

I call on the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, to make his opening statement.