Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank all the witnesses for their presentations. I was reading their statements last night and this morning and it is worth noting the invaluable work they do all year round and the invaluable service they provide for children and for those on the margins. It should not be just in times of crisis that we acknowledge their work. The Ministers came before the committee two weeks ago, when we held two 45-minute sessions. I will make some comments with regard to what we raised with the Ministers. If any particular person wants to respond, that is fine. I do not want to put anybody on the spot.

There were three main issues. One was the issue of displacement. Teething problems have come to my notice. Of course, there will be such problems in light of the number of Ukrainian refugees and families who have arrived in Ireland but we have seen situations in which children have settled into a school environment and the uniform has been bought. These children may have seen and heard very traumatic things, they may be worried about family members and, of course, they face the language issue. I am given to understand that they can then, with very little notice, be moved from point A to point B, with point B being in a very rural setting. I do not know if the witnesses wish to comment on how that is being managed and communicated to the education system.

On a second issue, children with special educational needs may be more integrated or knitted into a school setting because their needs are being met in that school. Is the system too rigid to accommodate that? The Minister recognised what I was saying about that having an even bigger impact on a family but I was not convinced that there was sufficient fluidity in the system to allow for that level of education for such young people to be maintained, notwithstanding the difficulties with accommodation.

Reference has been made to the last point I wish to make. A situation like this is going to expose some of the frailties and fault lines in provision for children. That is good. We should never waste a good crisis. If this exposes existing problems within the system as regards education provision and the supports we provide for children, we should rise to that challenge. However, it has been said and is demonstrably true that there is a dichotomy between what is now being afforded to Ukrainian children and what is being afforded to children already within the protection system. I agree with Mr. Henderson's point that it should not be the case that we treat Ukrainian children in the way children already in the system are being treated. If we can provide a greater level of language support for Ukrainian children, then all children should benefit from that higher level of support. I would not want it to be said of the Irish system that is has one attitude towards - let us be blunt - white Christians on the edge of Europe and another towards those who are not white Christians and not from the edge of Europe. That is an uncomfortable sentence to have to utter but if that is the underlying suspicion within the Irish education system and among practitioners, it is a very troubling one. I have experience of being a Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality and I must say that I did not come away feeling that the Department was fit to deal with this entire area. I was extremely welcoming of the move by the current Government to take a lot of this responsibility away from that Department and to give it to the new Department under the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman. That was a very positive move showing a much more humane mindset.

Those are my points. I mentioned the continuum of education for all children, how it can be managed and the displacement element. I also mentioned children with special educational needs and how that issue needs to be properly recognised. My third point was on the exposure of the dichotomy or split in the system between what Ukrainian children and young people are being afforded with regard to language supports and what is being afforded to those already in the system. I would like to hear the witnesses' comments on that and on how it should be addressed. I am interested in what any of the witnesses have to say.