Ms Annette Hickey:

The Deputy's question with regard to retrospective recognition is an essential question and it is something that I feel strongly about. I am working every day with couples where the second parent has not been recognised and where they have children. Those children are not statistics. They are living, breathing children. Not only should retrospective recognition be included in the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022 but - I am not a legislator - if there is any way the Legislature can find some means to bring that aspect forward from a child's rights point of view, could it be added as a miscellaneous provision at the end of some legislation? Those children are here now.

I am working with particular couples where, as the Deputy will be aware, the biological parent is very ill. I have worked with and advised other couples where the biological parent was extremely ill and was in hospital and the stress and the anxiety is unbelievable. When one does not have any answers when parents are in that distressed state and are worried about their children, one has to say to them that there is nothing one can do. When they ask if I can bring an application to court for them, I tell them the baby is not two years old yet and there is nothing I can do for them. That is not okay.

It is not okay when one has a distressed mother and wife on the phone where the marriage has broken down. Senator Seery Kearney has in previous sessions mentioned the weaponising. When one sees that happen in reality, that is not okay either. It is very difficult to answer a mother or a parent who asks what their rights are and says they are the de facto parent who is at home with this child. I rake my brain and talk to various other people including legal people. I think there must be a way around this but there is not.

Those children are here now. They are Irish citizens. Their parents complied with the best guidance that was available. They complied with the 2012 guidance. They have affidavits of consent from those surrogate mothers and from independent lawyers.

Something will go really badly wrong and nobody wants that. It would be awful. People are anxious.

This is to do with children. Let us bring it back to that. There are three words here we are talking about - children, parents and families. Those families and those children are not secure. They are not safe in this country.

Some of those children, when one thinks about it, left Ukraine when there was a war. Our Government saved them. This country was outstanding. We stood up. I was receiving phone calls from lawyers in various countries whose children are back here in Ireland and not only do they not have a possibility of having a parental relationship with their mother but at present those children in this country do not have any parent because we must bring a court application.

It is very urgent. It is top of my agenda. I hope whatever means are necessary can be found to mark that as a priority. I understand, with the Health (Assisted Human Reproduction) Bill 2022, there will be a regulatory authority. There will be much that has to be put in place. I have the photographs in my office and on my phone of all of those gorgeous Irish children. They are out there and we really need to look after them. It is essential. It is not okay as it is at present.

With regard to Canada recognising Ukraine parentage, my opinion is that we need to front-load this checklist at the regulatory authority stage.

There is precedent for an automatic guardianship. In 2015, two new categories of automatic guardianship were created. When this legislation is enacted, we will be able to see how it is working in reality as part of the review process. I hope we will come to a point where parentage from certain jurisdictions will be automatically recognised. We have to bring forward the legislation and the regulatory authority. This area is going to be constantly evolving and we need to progress with it.