Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I hear what Ms Bond is saying. It would obviously be much better to have it as a contribution, but it is a bigger leap for welfare.

This is where we have to try to calculate where we are likely to make the most gains. Making massive demands without succeeding is not much use.

When someone comes in with a pension contribution record, the first step is to count whether he or she has 520 reckonable contributions. That gets you over step one, after which you get into what is currently the averaging system, although it will not last forever. A total of 40 years' worth of contributions is being talked about for everybody in the future. The contributions can be either paid or credited. Once you get over the first hurdle, you just need to credit, as long as there is no limit. If someone is required to provide care for the child well beyond 12 years, that case is a no-brainer. The idea of the 12 years is that when the child goes to secondary school, most parents can at least earn €38 per week. I refer to cases that are not high dependency and to there being an out regarding children with a severe disability. It is a question of what can be done in one year and, regarding the second year, where the best pitch is. It is also a question of which arrangement will get 99% or virtually 100% through and of not getting everything you want while actually winding up with nothing. It is a guessing game when dealing with Departments, as the witnesses know. I have always found that the more one can operate within the existing system and tweak the system, the more one is likely to get what I describe in the next budget change. I am referring to what occurs if you try to rewrite the rules more.

On the case that my good colleague raised, namely, that of the living wage, the matter is being addressed in a very tentative way in one Department. It is not in the Department of Social Protection at all. It kicked the matter to touch because it saw the implication of a living wage for everybody and so on. It should be achieved in the future. Having a living wage, with additional income taxed, is a very good idea but it is a question of how to get to all these great places and do so step by step. It would be useful to get some data on how many people, before, after or even during very part-time work, manage to achieve the 520 paid contributions so we will know what the real problems are.