Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

Before I go to my speaking notes, I will reflect on some of the contributions from members. I thank Deputies O'Callaghan and Nash for bringing forward these amendments. Deputy Flaherty made points about local elections with which I agree wholeheartedly. A considerable amount of work is required in that regard. He is correct to say the commission is going to be burdened with a considerable amount of research. Deputy Ó Broin made a point about the commission's ability to look at the merit of four-seat, five-seat and six-seat constituencies. We must consider the impacts on communities and the potential for disenfranchisement. Deputy Tóibín made reference in the Dáil to slivers of a county being excluded or cut off. That is an important consideration.

For the local elections of 2014, my own city of Kilkenny was split into Kilkenny city east and west. It had a borough council for hundreds of years prior to that. There is a broader issue, though perhaps not for consideration today, about borough and town councils and the positive impact they had on smaller parties and Independents getting a foothold into the electoral system. That is for another day but all these matters are parts of the broader debate we are having about our democracy.

Valid points have been made about constituencies with more seats. It will be interesting to see what the census will bring forward. I certainly benefited from being in a five-seat constituency and was elected by the skin of my teeth in the 2020 election. There is no doubt a bigger constituency gives added benefit to small and medium-sized parties, which is important in terms of the diversity we are seeking to achieve. As Deputy Flaherty said, it is about a bigger piece of work around participation in our democratic system. The challenge for all of us relates to getting more people out to vote and to allow for greater engagement with the political system.

I will now speak directly to the amendments. I again thank the Deputies for the amendments, which raise interesting points. It might be helpful to the committee if at the outset I outlined the law and practice in the area of Dáil constituency size. Under Article 16.2.6° of the Constitution, no law may be enacted by the Oireachtas providing for fewer than three Members for a Dáil constituency. The relevant Parts of the Electoral Act 1997 are being retained in this Bill and provide that the electoral commission will make recommendations based on three-seat, four-seat or five-seat constituencies.

While in the early years of the State there were seven-seat, eight-seat and even nine-seat constituencies, constituency size in Ireland has been restricted to three-seater, four-seaters and five-seaters since 1947. Currently, the 39 Dáil constituencies comprise 13 five-seat constituencies, 17 four-seat constituencies and nine three-seat constituencies. It is worth noting that we have to go back to 1923 to find a time when we had fewer three-seat constituencies. That was a time when constituencies ranged in size from three seats to nine seats.

In my view, there needs to be a reasonable choice of constituency size to produce constituencies that make sense to people on the ground by, for example, enclosing entire communities or adhering to obvious physical features. I think the three-seat, four-seat and five-seat arrangement has served us well and strikes a reasonable balance.

Turning in particular to amendment No. 41, I am not in favour of placing any further restrictions on an electoral commission along the lines proposed. It is important the commission has a reasonable degree of flexibility when making recommendations on constituency formation. The amendment gives us no guidance on what circumstances would permit three-seaters or indeed enable a larger number of five-seaters. The nature of the task of constituency revision calls for a workable menu of different-sized constituencies and I believe the arrangements proposed in the Bill achieve that.

Amendment No. 44 focuses on the proposed size of local electoral areas and proposes they do not have fewer than five seats and not more than seven seats except where that would result in a disproportionately large electoral area. Section 60 sets out the process for the review of local electoral areas. It should be noted that section 60 does not set out the matters to be considered in any such review. That is a matter for the Minister and this is in line with the current process for reviewing local electoral areas. However, I have now included a further step in the process, and when the Minister is making a request to the commission to review local electoral areas, that request will be laid before the Houses and must be approved by resolution of each House. This will ensure Members will have an opportunity to debate and feed into the matters to be considered by the electoral commission when reviewing local electoral area boundaries. It is at that point that matters such as the size of local electoral areas can be discussed and provided for. Again, I think it is important to retain this flexibility in setting the terms of reference for the review of local electoral areas rather than being prescriptive in this Bill.

Amendment No. 43 is also related to the terms of reference of the electoral commission when it is reviewing Dáil constituency boundaries. Section 56(2)(c) provides that when the electoral commission is reviewing Dáil constituency boundaries, the breaching of county boundaries shall be avoided as far as practicable. However, section 56(4) provides that this requirement will not apply to a boundary of a city or any boundary between any two of the counties of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, Fingal and South Dublin. Again, this is in line with the current terms of reference for the Constituency Commission set out in the Electoral Act 1997. The effect of the proposed amendment would require the electoral commission to avoid, as far as practicable, breaching county boundaries, including those boundaries in Dublin, when making recommendations formulating Dáil constituencies. The boundaries of the 32 counties of Ireland have been in existence for centuries. In the past 200 years, these counties have become a well-established focus for community activity and so the requirement generally to align constituency boundaries with county boundaries makes absolute sense. However, the effect of this amendment would be to impose greater restrictions on the electoral commission and would remove the avoidance of doubt type provision that currently exists relating to city boundaries. The current provision will give the electoral commission some flexibility in dealing with our cities, including in Dublin city and county, the most densely populated part of Ireland.

The reality is that urban development around cities has long since spilled over into the adjoining counties. Many people living outside the city bounds feel a strong degree of affinity and loyalty to their city and would prefer to be included in city constituencies.

For these reasons, we should not require the commission to avoid, where practicable, breaching city boundaries or administrative boundaries in Dublin. It would be inadvisable at this point to tie the commission's hands in this way and so I do not favour any alteration to the commission's terms of reference in this regard. Given the views I have outlined, I ask the Deputies not to press the amendments.