Mr. Conor Mahon:

First, in response to the Chairman's question about Covid, undoubtedly it has had a huge impact on participants. We find, in general, that the participants that are sent in our direction will ebb and flow, depending on the economic status of the country at any given time. If there is a period of high employment, the people that we will reach towards will be the furthest removed from the labour market. Those people tend to come with more social issues, notwithstanding Covid. However, Covid has exacerbated those issues. People are coming in now without having met with or spoken to anyone for perhaps a year. They have had little or no interaction. The benefit we see, from a social inclusion perspective, is off the charts in its significance for these individuals. We have also found with Covid that social issues are currently coming up, such as housing. For example, I have two or three participants on my scheme who are on the verge of homelessness because they are being put under so much pressure. These people, in general, are living hand-to-mouth on the payment they receive through the scheme of a Friday. That money is gone quickly and they do not have any savings. Social issues, such as housing, have a huge impact. Obviously, Covid has exacerbated the housing situation. From a mental health point of view, there is a high rate of depression and a lack of contact with people. Even going into Intreo services and going to the post office to get their payment was an interaction for these people. All of these interactions were gone during Covid. While previously they might have gone to a shop five or six times a week, they were going once a week during Covid. Every interaction that these people undertook was diminished significantly during Covid. CE is of huge importance to them. When we, as supervisors, are dealing with these people, it is taking longer to get them up to speed and to reintegrate them into our workforce. It is problematic and has posed problems for many supervisors dealing with such people. We almost need to be social workers and counsellors. We wear so many different hats that we cannot be experts in everything. We have made many phone calls to Pieta House to seek different supports to help and assist our participants. That illustrates the holistic nature of the role that we undertake, which was previously alluded to. We are helping participants fill out their medical card applications, helping them with HAP and helping them with their different needs. If a person is not solid in an area such as housing, work and training will be the least of their worries. It is only when get them onto a solid and secure footing that we can start integrating them wholly and ensuring they benefit from CE going forward. The Chairman asked about support and flexibility and the Department of Social Protection. We only really deal with the Department from a practical management point of view. We do not really have any interaction with it from a policy development perspective. We do not deal with it on a personal, one-to-one basis. I have never met the most recent two community development officers, CDOs, on my scheme in person. We have only emailed each other. I have only spoken to the CDO on the current scheme perhaps twice ever. We have a great relationship via email, but there is not that bond and, therefore, there is not really any flexibility or support for the current needs of schemes.

On the Chairman's question on literacy and numeracy, the issue can be geographical, as much as anything else. If a CE scheme is in a very rural area, it will deal with a certain cohort of people. Where I am based, in Oranmore, we cover the area into Doughiska. There is a very much a rural aspect to my scheme. People will join the scheme because they are on farm assist and other benefits. I also work in Doughiska, which is the most culturally diverse community in Ireland. There are both urban and rural aspects to my scheme. In the urban setting, I will see people who are predominantly non-nationals. They have high rates of literacy and prior learning. Some of them have master's degrees. Their issues with employment are often caused by a lack networks and confidence in the English language. We get confirmation of their degrees and qualifications from their home countries. We go through the NARIC process of getting the qualifications recognised in the Irish system for them. Often, that is all that we have to do with them from a training perspective, because they have had the training. We might get them a comparable Irish qualification so that it looks good on their CV. For them, the primary issue is not literacy, but English language competence. It is about being able to speak and being comfortable speaking English. Being immersed in a predominantly Irish environment, speaking with other Irish people, their English comes on leaps and bounds. They have the competence generally; it is just a confidence thing.

For the older cohort of traditional CE workers, whom people might perceive as being those who cut pitches at the GAA club and so on, numeracy and literacy can be an issue. We start them off training at a very approachable level. They do courses such as Safe Pass, which very much has taken literacy into account. Many of these people have the literacy. They just need to become comfortable with their peers and with going into a group to do a training course. That confidence is built up gradually over time. That is where time comes into it. We would love to have the flexibility and support of the Department dealing with individuals. That is why I mentioned in the submission that often in our work, we just manage to get through to a person, they are on a pathway and then their time on CE ceases, when they are two thirds of the way there. A person might need to complete nine modules to get a Quality and Qualifications Ireland, QQI, major award. If that person has completed five or six of the modules, they are so close to completion and it is such a disappointment for us and them that we cannot get them over the line. That is why we would love a bit of flexibility in assisting us with very identifiable individuals to get them over the line. We can provide evidence of what has been done in the process. I hope that answers the Chairman's questions.