Mr. John O'Connell:

I think it comes down squarely to the shareholder-versus-stakeholder issue. If a bank is driven solely to satisfy its shareholders, the kinds of issues the Deputy described will continue to happen, and that is why we are at a crossroads in the banking sector in Ireland.

We have a choice. We owned two of the banks and we have a stake in another bank, and we have a regulator and a Government. We can determine the future of the banking system, just as simply as the banking system can have an input. The central tenet of our debate and of the paper we have published on the future of banking relates to whether it should be driven solely for the benefit of shareholders. In both banks, share buy-backs and share dividends were renewed recently, up against the kinds of services the regulator called out. Those two issues do not equate. Profits of that scale, at €2 billion between the banks, cannot be taken while giving people that level of service and putting staff in that position daily. There has to be equilibrium, with other stakeholders such as customers and staff getting a fair return and a fair service, given that is mainly what they look for-----