Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The challenge with regard to amendment No. 5, where we are talking about the nine members of the council, four of whom are lay members and four Judiciary, with the Attorney General as a non-voting member, is that there are three ex officiomembers - the Attorney General, the Chief Justice, and the President of the Court of Appeal, and these alternate depending on which judge is appointed to which court. This would place a specific reference that they must be competent to conduct their functions through Irish, something that is not there when a person is appointed to the position of Chief Justice, Attorney General or other positions. This amendment would place an additional onus on ex officiomembers.

Separate to that, and I mentioned this at the Irish language committee, by insisting on the competence for all members, another group of people are being excluded. We put in place a requirement to ensure diversity, including gender-specific diversity, general diversity in terms of background and community, and a third relating to the Irish language. We have tried, inasmuch as possible, to include diversity in the Bill in the appointment of members, the people coming through the interview process, and the three appointees being put forward so that there is a balance across the board. By making sure everybody has to be competent, it automatically removes a cohort of people who do not have the language because it is not universal. This may not be where we would like it to be but the language is not universal. It is not an expressed requirement for the roles theex officiomembers are currently in, so it would be adding in an additional layer.

On amendment No. 8, and this may have been dealt with differently in the Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin's Bill, we are dealing with people who are not involved in the provision of public-facing services. Their role is to put forward people who will be appointed to public-facing positions, but they themselves are not in public-facing positions.

For those reasons, I would find it difficult to accept the amendments. I stress, and this probably applies to many of the amendments the Deputy is putting forward in terms of the Irish language, that there is a review after two years looking at the requirement for diversity in gender, ethnic diversity and the Irish language. From a ministerial point of view, it will have to be clear there is diversity and balance.