Dr. Katriona O'Sullivan:

It is a great question. It really frustrates me when, having been asked to present at any conference or anything else to do with gender, I turn on the screen and only see women. Realistically, it is men who need to be listening to this rather than women. I find that quite frustrating. What the Deputy has said about how we spend our time is really interesting. With regard to industry, I believe there needs to be penalties. I am one of these people who believe people need to be forced to engage with equality issues at this point because making it optional and leaving it to women to progress the agenda is not working. If we keep going the way we are going, we are never going to reach gender equality. There needs to be definite male champions and our workload needs to be recognised as part of our job because a lot of women do it as extra work. It is a really good point. I ask the question "Why are there no men here?" a lot. I know Senator Warfield is here today and I am really glad that he is but why do men not come to these events? The reality is that it does not affect them in the same way. It is really not a priority but it should be made one. People should be forced. I do not mean that in a harsh way.

The other issue the Deputy raised related to care. My research during the Covid pandemic really pointed to women being at the brink of breaking because of home schooling, work and everything being brought into the household. The research showed that mothers did a lot of this while the fathers were just going to work and getting on with it. One of the big fears I have as we move back to normality is that working from home will become the norm. Many women I know are delighted that they might be able to stay home because they can manage the extra workload that is on them because of their children, appointments and cleaning. The possibility that this is going to become the norm really frightens me. We are going to take a step back in terms of gender equality if we do not do something with regard to who is staying at home and working from home. Is that just going to be a female piece? On the care point, care should be recognised as part of our work. When I apply for a grant with the European Research Council or for a promotion, having children or, as in my own case, fostering is recognised with regard to progression. When I am applying for a promotion, that is taken into account so I am not supposed to be the same as a male or female who has not had children.

That should be everywhere and it should be much more explicit. If someone has children and cares for them or anyone else in the home, and men care for their children as well, it should be celebrated to a greater degree. There are policies in place that really do this. I have so many children that I should never have even got my PhD at this point from my last grant application because I had one so young. It is great that it gives us that recognition when we are trying to progress as females, so people who have taken maternity leave can say they have not published so many articles because they have been at home with caring responsibilities.