Mr. Brian Hayes:

I have just three concluding remarks, because I know the Chairman is under pressure.

Deputy Durkan raised three issues. We will give a written reply directly to the clerk to the committee on them. I believe he was referring to PSD2, which is domestic and European law, and which the banks must implement with regard to strong customer authentication that requires a double-click for security. We will come back on the ATMs, the PSD2, and the opening hours.

The Senators raised questions on those two very significant institutions that are leaving, one of which was in the country for 150 years and the other for 40. Both banks remained after the crash when they had significant positions and did not cost the Irish taxpayer anything. We must prosecute that question. It is a fundamental question. I am happy to come back to deal with that on behalf of the industry at a public session. I am aware that some of these issues will be played out in the dialogue on the banking review, which I know Deputy Doherty attended in Tullamore on Monday.

Retail banking is a scale business. We are a population of 5 million. The cost of regulation - the actual cost to income ratio - in Ireland is approximately 65%; across Europe it is approximately 50%. Let us consider the way in which our industry is structured with the cost of capital. We must hold approximately three times as much capital as our European peers. There are issues around security that we must address at some point in the future. There are also issues around net interest income. The Irish banking sector obtains 80% of its income from interest, whereas in the European case it is more like an average of 60%. Every fee increase that an Irish bank has to propose must go through the Central Bank of Ireland under section 149 of the Consumer Credit Act. No other country in Europe has that. The only other country in the world that operates that is Nigeria.

We have major problems as an industry that I would love to discuss further with the committee and with my colleagues in the BPFI. We really must have a proper debate on it. That debate is predicated on not forgetting the past, the reputational issues and the legacy issues, but also having the courage to address some of those fundamental commercial issues that are no different in other European jurisdictions. As a country we really need to have that debate.

If I am an investor and I want to invest in any of these public limited companies in front of me here today, I would expect a return of 8%, 9% or 10% on average per year for my investment. These companies are owned by investors. These are public limited companies. The European average is 8% and Ireland's average in normal times pre-Covid was between 4% to 5%. If I am not returning equity then I am not going to have the money into my business to invest in technology and all the things we need. We really need a serious debate about all the factors that are making the landscape for retail banking in Ireland challenging. Perhaps that is an issue for another day.

I saw the Behaviour & Attitudes survey on Monday, which was independently compiled face-to-face. Goodness knows, from a previous life I would probably recognise a dodgy poll or survey if I saw it. This particular survey, however, showed that according to Behaviour & Attitudes, 82% of the people surveyed were either extremely satisfied or satisfied with their Irish banking service. This is not the narrative that is out there. I believe there is a problem in that. The experience of ordinary people as they go about branches, as they deal with the digital offering, and as they deal with the call centres seems to be broadly satisfied, but the industry as a whole has this very difficult and challenging narrative. We have a job to do, collectively, in addressing that and making sure of the translation of that. It was a very interesting survey on Monday. It was independent and nothing to do with us. It was conducted face to face and gives some quite encouraging remarks, especially to the 22,000 people who work in this sector and keep the sector going. We owe it to them to keep their heads up as we go through this very challenging period.