Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank our guests for being here for this useful engagement. I previously had the opportunity to engage with at least two of our guests when they wore different hats. I congratulate them on their recent appointments.

I missed the committee visit to the Bishopstown campus because I had Covid-19 at the time. I have since had the opportunity to visit. The questions I intended to ask were the key points that were raised with me on that occasion, particularly the 60:40 funding split. Perhaps there is not much point in dwelling on that any further. The position does seem iniquitous. In addition to that, it provides a perverse incentive, in that money is being spread more and more thinly and no real incentives for the technological universities are being created. Even though the technological universities are doing their best to expand their numbers, the incentives are not great because the result is a situation where Peter is being robbed to pay Paul.

My first question is directed to any of our guests because I imagine that all the technological universities have a significant thumbprint in terms of apprenticeships. There are two parts to the question. I know the apprenticeship programme is a significant element of Munster Technological University, MTU. An important part of what we are going to be doing in the further and higher education sector in the coming years is transforming how we think of apprenticeships. The concept of the long ladder of opportunity, the MTU phrase, is important. One of the things we need to address is the distinction that is sometimes falsely created between the academic and apprenticeship programmes. There is nothing to say that apprenticeships cannot be part of a sequence that involves academic training and qualifications. The German model is often instanced as the best approach in that regard and I think the technological universities are well placed to integrate the academic and apprenticeship programmes. That includes traditional apprenticeships and new apprenticeships. How do we do that? What are the next steps that technological universities need to take to ensure we do that?

Many of those apprenticeships find it very hard to find adequate instructors, teachers and people to provide the courses. The same is true in academia. They are competing with industry and the rates that are paid in industry are much higher than what a technological university would be in a position to pay. That leads to difficulties with recruitment and retention. Those are my first questions.