Ms Cathy Wheatley:

In terms of what we recommend in Irish Families Through Surrogacy or what we would like to see, it is, of course, the ethical process of surrogacy. Like Ms Merrigan, our experience when we started our surrogacy journey was that it was very much a collaboration with the clinics in Ireland. I went through my stimulation in Ireland and that was worked with the clinic over there. It was a collaborative approach and that is definitely what we want going forward. That is why we feel the role of the regulatory authority is so important. It is because we have these systems in place. We need something to cement it and give it an overview.

The legal representation for both parties involved is hugely important to us as an organisation. The reason for that, of course, is that we have our representation in Ireland. We also have legal representation in the country where we are availing of surrogacy but the surrogate mother herself has that independent legal representation. That is absolutely huge for us. In my case, when we went there, we met our surrogate, Ivana, who has no problem being named. We met her without anybody involved first. We had literally a human meeting where we wanted to see who she was and whether she was happy to do this, and her reasons for doing it, and then we went into the more official process whereby we met with our representation, her representation and together we produced a collaborative contract, so that her voice was heard at all times. That is really what we are calling for in that regard.

As we said, counselling is a big deal. Even before starting the process, we believe people should have access to that. Every woman wants to carry her own child and as one is going through the process, there is so much information and so many regulatory bodies, and one must meet the requirements of clinics here, clinics over there, etc. The reality is it is a big deal to hand over the most precious gift even from our point of view in terms of our embryos to begin with. To hand that over to somebody else to take care of is huge and, therefore, the intended parents definitely need to have counselling to establish how they will feel and how they will deal with issues when they arise.

One of the most beautiful things that happened between me and my surrogate mother is that when we went there at the 20-week scan, she asked me if she could hold her tummy to my tummy so that I could feel her babies' kick. In that moment, I was blown away by her love, generosity and kindness to be able to do that. I also wanted to make sure that she was okay with that, emotionally. She was offered counselling at all stages throughout pregnancy as well and, most importantly, post birth. There was a definite push from the clinic to get her to avail of counselling. Ivana would tell you she is a strong woman. She knew what she was doing. She knew what she was getting into, but she did avail of counselling, and she found that it really helped her. One of the things that she said - I do not speak on her behalf as she is able to speak very clearly for herself - is that after our surrogacy journey was completed, the twins were born and we were back in Ireland, what she missed most was the contact between the two of us because in those nine months we were constantly in contact. I was so busy. I had newborn twins and I would ring her and show them to her and she would say it was okay that I was busy and it was grand. One of the reasons she availed of counselling was to deal with the fact that the time I had initially was not available, not because I did not want that, but because I was caring for newborn babies. That was a huge issue for her.

The main issue for us is always that our surrogate mothers get to retain autonomy over their own bodies. That is important. Nobody has the right to say what anybody does. It was one of the things that was really important to us. Ivana herself would say differently. She would say "Get it done and dusted quickly". She would be afraid of her life that she was going to have legal responsibility for the children. That is something that is really important. As an organisation, we outline the steps to couples in the absence of regulation and legislation. That is a role we have very much taken on and what we recommend to couples is to make sure that people going into it have clear indications of what is best practice.