Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 5 May 2022

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy

Issues relating to International Surrogacy Arrangements and Achieving Parental Recognition: Discussion (Resumed)

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their contributions. By way of introduction, the committee gets a breakdown of each person's curriculum vitae courtesy of the secretariat who are fantastic in the support that they give to us. I note Ms Duffy has a role in the Merrion Fertility Clinic and the ethics committee in the hospital, in addition to which she is a lawyer.

One of the features that arose last week was the possibility of clinics abroad getting, not an accreditation, but a pathway to have a list of almost approved clinics. I am aware that the word "approved" is heavily laden. When Professor Mary Wingfield was in she talked about the fact that when they engage with clinics abroad or send embryos to clinics abroad they can tell very quickly whether a clinic is good and has good standards because they know by the documentation and the questions that are asked for. Has Ms Duffy anything to contribute in that regard as that would be helpful as a methodology?

Presumably, if Ms Duffy is a lawyer for the surrogacy process in Ireland then it is quite likely when there is relationship breakdown that people come back to her although they would have to arm wrestle to decide which of them would get her. In relationship breakdown, because of the fact that only one parent is recognised in Irish law and the second parent is not recognised at this moment in time, there is an appalling power imbalance and I know of cases where this has occurred. We need to bring this matter into the conversation. Ms Duffy can think about my questions for a minute.

My next question is for Ms O'Connell. We have protocols for genetic link. I know, particularly over the last few months, clinics have biological embryological protocols yet when a baby is born via surrogacy the presumption of paternity goes with the husband of the surrogate even though well established protocols already exist. On one hand, in that country the intended parents may be on the birth certificate so they have all the rights that flow from that when they are in that jurisdiction. The moment they step out of that jurisdiction and they are home in Ireland those rights and presumptions are removed immediately and it is back to the surrogate and her husband and, in particular, her husband must be removed from the picture via affidavits and genetic testing. It is important that we do something about this matter. If we were to undermine the presumption of paternity it would have an impact on children who are born without assisted human reproduction. Has LGBT Ireland given any thought to this matter? I would appreciate if we could start this conversation as well.

My next question is for the ILMI. We need to repeat the sentence that for people with disabilities there is almost a presumption, and it is in the Tusla guidelines, that they are a risk to children. We must highlight how appalling that is. It is ironic that we are in a committee that seeks to resolve discrimination and bring equality for children, and welcome the fact that we are all equals together. I believe that we are equals in disadvantage and in dealing with discrimination and ableist privilege, which is small by comparison with the lived experience, particularly that described by Ms Bonnie. The idea of a parental capacity assessment is equally abhorrent in my view. We must take the opportunity to amplify how abhorrent that is. This matter is not strictly in the terms of reference for this committee but we must ensure that all reproductive services are available to people with disabilities. Also, the costs are so prohibitive so it is important that the committee recommends that funding is provided for IVF. Some of these matters can go towards a second round.

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