Mr. Gearóid Kenny Moore:

I thank the Senator for her questions. In relation to my comments last week on the birth cert, in our case the surrogate mother is listed on our children's birth certs. That is because they were born on the UK where parental rights cannot be transferred until after the child is born and, therefore, the surrogate is legally obliged to be placed on the birth cert. As a couple who had children through the UK, we could not go through the parental order process that exists there. In order to do so, you have to be a resident, passport holder, citizen, etc. and we were none of those. That is the primary reason the surrogate is listed on the birth cert. Going forward, we ask members to consider that when surrogacy is the method of conception, the standard birth cert issued to the child would list the intended parents but that, if you wish to include the surrogate, it could be done through the long form of the birth cert, so the child can see clearly the method of conception and gestation.

I note the Senator's point about the level of exploitation. We all agree that legislation is the way to prevent exploitation. I dispute that it is extensive. I do not believe that to be the case. We in Irish Gay Dads work primarily through the United States, Canada and the UK, where the surrogacy model is extremely well established and has been in existence for over 30 years. Natalie Gamble, a legal expert from the UK, was before this committee two weeks ago talking about the fact she has handled 1,500 cases and come across about three or four that caused issues.

I dispute that the level of exploitation is extensive but I will address the point on bad actors. All of us, when we dream of having a child, want that child's birth story to be as perfect as possible. We want every party to the agreement to be acknowledged, included and protected. As I mentioned last week, no matter how much you regulate medicine or any sector, there will always be bad actors. All you can do is put together a stringent framework to ensure that every party enters into the agreement freely, gives consent and gets appropriate legal support and appropriate independent medical support, and that every party, including the intended parents, the egg donor and the surrogate, gets psychological support so there is no doubt in anybody's mind about what is about to happen, how it will happen or what the process will look like.

There has to be, as the Senator touched on in her questions to Dr. Bracken, an oversight body that regulates all the players. It would be the AHRA in Ireland and equivalent bodies in other locations. Anybody who participates in a surrogacy agreement, whether a clinic, a legal person or a medical person, has to be regulated and approved by that body. They are the safeguards. Not legislating will increase the possibility for bad actors; legislating is the way to lock it down to the maximum extent.