Mary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Chair and I thank our witnesses. I have specific questions for each of them, so I will go into that.

Dr. Bracken has published extensively in this area and I am a proud owner of two of her books. I have two points to raise with her, the first of which is the position of the European Court of Human Rights, ECHR, decision, particularly the one in France. In that regard, it is an advisory opinion. What is its standing in the Irish context? Is it open to this committee to recommend that we ban international surrogacy because of the commercial element to it or is it open to this committee not to provide a pathway for parental recognition of the second parent? Is a second parent in this State entitled now to take a case against Ireland on the basis of the failure to create that legal parental relationship? Is that open to a person in this State to take that case against Ireland? My personal contention would be that the failure to implement a framework is akin to burying our heads in the sand.

The second issue concerns parentage order versus guardianship. On some of the sanctions, we have talked with Professor Conor O’Mahony about a carrot-and-stick approach and trying to get people to engage in domestic surrogacy and to incentivise that, but that international surrogacy will occur. In that, there may be implied issues or difficulties. One of the issues that hang over us is that we would not award parentage orders in a situation where maybe all of the boxes are not ticked. Instead, it would be mere guardianship. However, the point of parental orders is that they are akin to adoption and so sever the obligations and duties on the person who gave birth as surrogate mother in these instances. Therefore, if we merely employ guardianship, then we have the difficulty that she remains with all of those obligations in Irish law. Does Dr. Bracken have any suggestions or thoughts of what would be a sanction or a penalisation on that?

Mr. Kenny Moore and Mr. Lennon are very welcome. I am very grateful for their extremely valuable experience and their sharing with us the failure of the Legislature.

It would be shameful if we continued to fail families formed via surrogacy.

A significant point from Mr. Kenny Moore last week and Mr. Lennon today comes from their sharing of the fact that when gay couples meet, they have the same conversations as everybody else about whether they will have children together. I am not sure that everybody considers how that innate desire to have a child is not dependent on sexuality or gender but it is about wanting to nurture. It is something in the human spirit that wants to do that.

Last week, Mr. Kenny Moore spoke extensively about the pre-pregnancy position and depths into which the Canadian system goes. This relates to the due diligence and high standards employed and the submission is extensive. Point No. 4 goes into evaluating destinations, providers, clinics and agencies and ensuring consent, so perhaps he could elaborate on that. I will hold off on other questions until the second round.