Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I will pick up from the Chair's discussion with Mr. Armstrong about skills. A problem with that report is it is based on the HNDA target of 33,000 on average per year. I know Mr. Armstrong will not comment on this but I will make the point anyway for the record. When we get to the other side of the census, get all the new inputted census data and revise the HNDA, we will see that the level of need is much higher. The Department will not comment on that until we get the data. There is also a strong case to say the existing data, and therefore the figure of 33,000, underestimates the number of social and affordable homes needed. We will need far more than an average of 33,000 between now and 2026, let alone beyond that.

The other problem relates to a question I asked earlier, so I will come back to both Departments. We are still talking about building houses in a traditional way and will not meet our emissions reduction targets if we continue to do that. It is not possible. Other countries, including in Scandinavia, as well as Britain, Poland and France, are way ahead of us in embracing the new building technologies that are low-, or in many cases, zero-carbon. They do not use as much brick, cement, concrete or steel as we still use. We have been told about the work of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the innovation subgroup of the construction sector working group. I am not asking the witnesses to repeat that for the committee. We are also aware of the work of Enterprise Ireland and others.

I am interested to hear from both Departments in advance of the setting of the sectoral targets, particularly the sectoral target most relevant to the work of this committee and its focus on residential housing output. What work is ongoing in both Departments to assist the public and private sectors involved in residential development to reorientate away from the traditional, labour-intensive, inefficient and carbon-intensive building technologies to the new building technologies that we know they are and that been used? We have been talking about doing it since Rebuilding Ireland was published in 2016. Some companies in the country are developing this technology but on a limited scale.

Will the witnesses answer in simple terms for those of us trying to get our heads around how this new sectoral target will work? Our committee has a role to play in supporting, promoting and advocating for it. What preparation are both Departments doing to assist public and private sector housing providers to start making that transition to those newer technologies? Deputy Leddin picked up the point and Mr. Armstrong deftly and diplomatically sidestepped it, but are we looking at changing planning regulations so that the demolition of a building has to be justified rather than it being taken as read? Are we looking at the phasing out of high-carbon concrete or cement, given that we have the technologies to produce low-carbon cement and concrete in the country at almost the same cost? Are we looking at changing building regulations in terms of the cap on 10 m for timber product residential developments subject to further strengthening of fire safety regulations? What is happening in the two Departments to push that stuff along in the areas they are responsible for? Without that, the public and private sectors, in terms of delivery mechanisms for housing, will continue building with improved energy efficiency systems but the embodied carbon will be at the same level it currently is. What good news have the witnesses for the committee on their preparations to help the sector meet its targets on the other side of this year and next?