Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

They have, but the institutions are not my primary and sole constituency here either. I am trying to be able to tell the people of Ireland that I am satisfied that the governance structure works. We have been collaborative on this Bill, so I do not wish to be argumentative. However, if we passed Deputy Conway-Walsh’s amendment No. 150, we would be removing all the reforms to the composition of the governing authority. The challenge that I have faced as Minister, and people would argue as to whether I have gotten this right or wrong, is to come up with a composition. If we passed amendment No. 150, we would just keep the status quo. I do not think that even the sector believes in the status quo. The challenge is to try to get it right.

I accept that it would be counter-factual to suggest that the figure of 17 is not an arbitrary number. Of course, it is. However, there is a rationale behind it that includes an external chairperson, eight other external members, two students, the chief officer and five internal members. That is how we get there. We are trying to be fair to the constituent parts.

We have made a policy decision that there should be an external majority. Some would agree and some would disagree with that decision. However, it is a policy decision and I think it is an important policy decision to protect autonomy. I say this because they will be able to stand over strong internal governance by having an external majority. I think that helps to protect the autonomy. We see this across the Bill, which enables the institutions to have the right modern governance structures in place, as well as being able to get on with their own affairs. It is an important policy intent. It is entirely up to Deputy Conway-Walsh and to the stakeholders to bring forward further proposals on Report Stage. However, my position on this is set. That is my honest answer to her question.