Mr. Gearóid Kenny Moore:

I will happily address the Senator's two points. In relation to European countries that do not allow surrogacy, as my colleague has said, in many cases it is not that they do not allow it, they just do not regulate for it. Through my eight-year journey to parenthood, I met lots of parents from countries in Europe where international surrogacy was either forbidden or made very difficult by the legislation and the processes in place in their countries. It did not solve the problem in those countries. Those parents still found ways to parenthood in other locations. I met them on the journey. As the members were told yesterday by the representatives from the legal profession in the UK, not allowing it, banning it or making it difficult just does not work. It just means that people find alternative ways and they are left to their own devices. What we are asking for is a framework that supports people to make ethical decisions in the interests of a child, in the interests of a surrogate and in the interests of an intended parent, and in that order.

On the Senator's point on recognition of the surrogate mother on the birth certificate, I will speak for myself and the organisation I represent. We have no issue whatsoever with a birth certificate incorporating the details of a surrogate mother. I want my children to know exactly where they came from. The Senator mentioned mother and baby homes. I am not sure that is appropriate, because in those cases the children were denied information about their lineage and heritage. None of us sitting here today wants that for our children. I am already talking to my three-and-a-half-year-old twins about where they came from, as my colleague Ms Merrigan mentioned, in an age-appropriate way. Whether it is on the birth certificate or not, parents want their children to know. We have contact with our egg donor. She is also part of our kids' story. Nobody here is trying to whitewash, as the Senator put it, people out of the picture. Actually, what we are trying to do-----