Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 21 April 2022

Joint Oireachtas Committee on International Surrogacy

Surrogacy in Ireland and in Irish and International Law: Assisted Human Reproduction Coalition

Photo of Patrick CostelloPatrick Costello (Dublin South Central, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I apologise for being late. I missed some of the colourful parts of the meeting. I was late because I was dealing with some family stuff at home. I am aware of the privilege I have in doing that and that not everybody has that privilege. Despite any of the sleepless nights, the headaches or the rows over them not wanting to take their antibiotics in the morning, it was all very normal and easy - or easy within the bounds of “normal”. It is a privileged position, or that is what I am stumbling towards, and I am aware of that privilege.

One of the things I want to say is that we have before us in the committee today a bunch of people who are dedicated to making it easier for everybody to have that kind of experience. That needs to be acknowledged and we need to thank them for their hard work. I think also of the words that were said yesterday about family arrangements, with which we all heartily agreed. It is not necessarily the family arrangements or how they look that matters but the love that the child experiences and the warmth, the care and the support, and that needs to be acknowledged as well. I do not think using words like “traditional” or “non-traditional” or other slightly more inflammatory language really helps because I do not think it captures the aspect that, at the end of the day, there are children who are wanted and loved and parents who are doing that loving and supporting. That absolutely needs to be the focus here.

It is also the job of this committee not to start making assumptions and making wild declarations, even if that gets someone on the news, when all the positive work, the stories, the emotional journeys and the hard work do not get on the news because that is not as spectacular, even though it is more important. To come out with these kinds of things is to prejudge the work of this committee and is in bad faith and undermining the work of this committee.

We have spoken about definitions and the due diligence that needs to be done. Our role in this committee is to set up those frameworks or to describe how those frameworks should be set up. As Ms O'Connell said, nobody on her side of the table wants to get their child and their family through exploitation. Part of our work is to ensure that does not happen and that there is due diligence to make it easy for people who want it. We need to look at the definitions of “commercial” and “ethical” from the UK and from other jurisdictions, and say, “This is what we believe is ethical and this is how it should be set up”. We want to help those who are walking the difficult journey of surrogacy. Again, the point was made yesterday that by the time people have come to make a decision to go down that journey, they will likely have had numerous setbacks, challenges and hills to climb. It is never an easy road to get to that decision. Surely our job is to make that road a little smoother while also ensuring there is due diligence. If the due diligence is there and is being done by someone else, it makes the journey easier for the families and the parents.

Mr. Kenny Moore mentioned paternity leave and the arrangements for parents. I know the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has made announcements about reform in that area, although they are only teasing announcements that have been leaked to the newspapers, so we have no details. There is a large crossover between this committee and the children committee so we will be on to the Minister about that.

When Ms Bonnie talks about the ableist assumptions in terms of parenting capacity, I look at this through my own lens and reflect on my own time as a child protection social worker, which is where I was most familiar with that use of the phrase “parenting capacity”. Again, given the crossover with the children committee, I am thinking out loud as to whether this is something the children committee needs to look at as an issue, but I will simply wonder that out loud and leave it there.

Ms O'Connell said we need to set out these things for ourselves and I really do see that as the role of the committee. What I would be interested in hearing about is those negative experiences of international surrogacy. I know there are intending parents who have gone looking for international surrogacy and have found it to be a problematic experience and backed away from it or found another route. Those aspects could be potentially informative for us when we are trying to set that yardstick and set those definitions. As I say that, I am conscious that another very important aspect of getting this right is that if an intended parent takes the first step, has a very negative experience and then chooses not to find another route or does not have the strength to take that other route, that is a huge loss. We need to prevent that loss by having decent legislation in place. It is that practical experience of the international piece and how we can improve it that I am interested in.

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