Dr. Kirsty Horsey:

Can I just add to that that when Ms Gamble said that no parental order had ever been refused before, she was talking in the context of payments overseas. There have been refusals to make parental orders. To my knowledge, and Ms Gamble will correct me if I am wrong, all of those cases were about consent, where the surrogate either could not be found or did not or would not give consent. Of the checklist in section 54, that is the one criterion that seems to be absolutely holding its own. There have been no deviations around that other that what is already built into the law itself.