Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 7 April 2022

Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement

Engagement with Truth and Justice Movement

Photo of Brendan SmithBrendan Smith (Cavan-Monaghan, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome Mr. McCord, Ms McIlvenny and Mr. Monaghan. As you said, a Chathaoirligh, Mr. McCord has made a powerful contribution in his opening statement and follow-up remarks.

I do not think any of us could quibble with what Mr. McCord said. In his opening statement Mr. McCord referred in particular to the need for dialogue, equality and truth. He emphasised that the process needs to be victim-led and victim-centred. His concluding remarks referred to how victims can be denoted at times. That is a thing we can all be more conscious of. I know when I speak of victims I include victims regardless of what their background is or political beliefs are, or whether they belonged to any religious group. We should make that point and I take that fact.

In his opening remarks Mr. McCord made a point about money. He said that, "Money going into the communities should be made public and accountable. It is being abused with providers turning a blind eye." If there is cause for concern, then there is an obligation on all of us, whether it is public money from the Department of Foreign Affairs or other agencies funded by our taxpayers. If we have evidence of wrongdoing or of money being misappropriated, we have an obligation to raise that and we will do so if we have particular concerns. I am sure that applies also to legislators in Northern Ireland or in the House of Commons. Nobody would have a problem with questioning that. If public funding is being put into projects that are to better everybody in society, then they should not be misappropriated by any group, organisation or individual. We all know public funding can be scarce at times and we want to see it put to proper use.

Mr. McCord mentioned dialogue, equality and truth and this being victim-led and victim-centred. They are basic tenets of fairness in any society. What he outlined is absolutely essential but it should be part of our everyday work and everyday public administration.

This committee has been in place for a number of years and we have met many groups. I do not think any group has been refused access to this committee. We have visited the Border counties in Northern Ireland and have met different groups, always going out to listen to different groups and to hear at first hand from people like today’s witnesses who have unfortunately continued to be victims of terrible deeds carried out by paramilitaries and by state forces. We have had much engagement with a number of groups, including Justice for the Forgotten, Wave Trauma Centre and Truth and Reconciliation Platform. I have met those groups and I listened and spoken to families who have been the beneficiaries of the work of those groups. We learn a great deal when we visit the Wave Trauma Centre in Belfast or Derry. We have met people who have been supported by those particular centre, namely, family members of victims who have been supported over the years. If there are people not being represented or not being listened to, then that has to be a source of concern for all of us.

I recall - it was probably a year ago at this committee - that I asked our Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Coveney, if he or his Department was confident that within our State, for which he has responsibility, all victims were being reached. Often people do not partake in groups or do not wish to participate in groups. He said his Department was confident that all victims' families in our State had been represented or had been reached out to by different statutory agencies. I sincerely hope that is accurate. Some people may not want to be involved in the process but he was confident that victims here had been reached out to and had been listened to. I hope that is right because that is the very least that people need.

On Mr. McCord’s opening remarks in regard to the British Government’s proposal of an amnesty, such a proposal by a democratically elected government is absolutely reprehensible. Such a proposal might be expected from some tin-pot regime of bygone days in somewhere like South America. A government is putting forward a proposal to put an end to investigations for people trying to seek the truth, and all of us are aware of many families who have campaigned for decades to try to get the truth about how their family member, their loved one, was lost. In many instances, they know getting justice will be extremely difficult but the least they want is to get the truth in regard to who carried out the horrific, reprehensible and despicable crimes that caused death and injury to so many.

I represented and worked alongside many of those families in my constituency. These are people who lost family members decades ago who are still searching with great dignity and grace to try to get the truth. A government is proposing to put an end to those investigations and is saying to those people that an end is being put to their work, when they always hoped that through their work, supported by support groups, that they would hopefully get the truth and that maybe justice would be meted out to the people who committed the crimes.

On a number of occasions this committee has had discussions on the British Government proposal. On many occasions we have tabled questions in the Dáil to An Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I recall that in the immediate aftermath of the anniversary of Bloody Sunday in Derry we had a specific Dáil debate in early February on the amnesty proposal in regard to legacy and victims' issues. About three weeks later we had another Dáil debate on that issue where both An Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and senior party representatives of all parties made very strong contributions on their total opposition to the British Government proposal and the absolute need to make progress with so many of the issues Mr. McCord outlined so cogently and so well today. That is not taking away from the amount of work that is needed.

What the British Government has come up with is opposed by every representative in our Houses of Parliament, in Dáil Éireann and in Seanad Éireann. That is clear. The work the witnesses did in getting all the political parties to sign that document has been important.

Mr. McCord mentioned a cover-up. Cover-up for state forces, for paramilitaries or for agents of the state forces is not acceptable. The truth is absolutely important. As Mr. McCord said in his opening remarks, no one except the guilty should be frightened of the truth. That particular statement is exceptionally powerful. Mr. McCord sums up so much, so well.

He mentioned the follow up on documents. We speak in the Dáil and at times we speak here. However, I accept the fact that many families, the vast majority, I am sure, would not be aware of the work we are doing. Perhaps we fall down in getting the message out to show that we continue to support them. That is our fault. The nature of political work is that we discuss issues here but the wider community is not aware of those discussions. People are not aware of the concerns or the representations we make to Government Ministers, Departments or statutory agencies. Mr. McCord made a very valid point. The only way we can hope to disseminate that message is through representative groups and advocacy groups. The work we do is always in support of the causes Mr. McCord outlined so well. We need to do a better job in getting that message across.

I mentioned the debates we had in the Dáil. Our colleagues, Senators McGreehan and Currie, along with others were instrumental in having similar debates in Seanad Éireann. The issues are discussed here constantly, and quite rightly so. We want to see progress on it.

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