Mr. Seán Cooke:

From our perspective, there needs to a programme. We talk about the three "Rs" in our education system; reading, writing and arithmetic. There needs to be a fourth "R" which looks at the holistic nature of engaging with young people in an age-appropriate way, from Montessori, right through to third level. That needs to be a continuous run that is age appropriate, addresses all of the areas around healthy relationships, consent, gender equality, gender-based violence and is done in a particular programme that runs its way through the organisation.

The other thing that needs to happen is that it needs to be graded in some way. I do not say that on the basis that people learn this thing but it is the one way in which the schools and teachers will see a need for it. They will know what the benchmark is in terms of making sure they do these programmes. Many programmes go into schools and they are not part of the integrated or the full, core curriculum. Schools and teachers then do not know what is success in terms of the programme.

They also do not put the time and effort into it, as they know that when the cigire comes along they do not have to worry about what the issue is in terms of the healthy relationship, the issue of consent or even the concept of climate and gender. All of those types of things need to be incorporated in the CSPE model and it needs to be broadened at that extent. Critically, there needs to be a continuity that runs from the very early stages right through.

Part of that, certainly, is using a particular model of engagement, whether it is with girls or boys. It is about a non-judgmental approach. It is about saying we are not trying to fix them, but are inviting them into a conversation around what they need to do and how they need to bring it home into the family.

My biggest problem with school sometimes is that they are overrun with many different programmes that they have to go into. It is very difficult to get time and space to do stuff. Really, we need to have a fourth element to our core curriculum that-----