Mr. Desmond Savage:

I thank the Deputy. On the point about Teagasc and what it is doing, I have been to Moorepark a number of times and I have been talking to a number of people in Teagasc at Lyons farm and Grange. There is great work going on there. I am not going to try to describe all the work. There are hundreds of people doing great work in that space.

The point I wanted to make was around the metric and how we measure it. I am coming from a technology background. I have seen how these metrics can have a cost benefit analysis and improve the performance of manufacturing when used correctly. Ireland has one of the best manufacturing records in the world. It is true and simple - if you cannot measure it, you cannot improve it. All I would like to add to all the good work that is going on with the likes of Teagasc is to consider the importance of metrics. Metrics matter and they have to be the right metrics. That is what I am trying to contribute to all that really good work that is going on there.

The Deputy made a point about the EU and GHG targets. This actually feeds into my very point on metrics. I appreciate we are talking to people here who are legislating through Ireland and the EU but I am a citizen of the world. Greenhouse gases does not pay any attention to borders. We might meet our targets here in Ireland but that kind of net negative impact on the global environment is a really good example. That is an example of where metrics are actually having a net wrong effect. It is easy for me to say but when it comes to greenhouse gases, there should not be Ireland targets or EU targets; there should be world targets. I know it is not an easy one to solve but it makes my point that using the wrong metrics can have the wrong effect, even though people think they are doing the right thing. If I am concerned about the world environment, I think that Ireland, with its grass-fed system and efficient farming with good genetics, is best positioned to produce high-quality milk and protein, which is a requirement for the growing middle class globally.

That chimes perfectly with Article 2.1 of the Paris climate change agreement in that food security, which we are hearing a lot about at the moment, needs to be maintained. Should we risk a very successful industry in either restricting or reducing it and impacting on future food security because we are trying to meet targets that are linked to the EU or Ireland which, arguably, are not going to be that beneficial for a global environment? A rethink needs to be had on this before any legislation is enacted. My main point is that global GHGs are not restricted to borders whereas we are setting targets that are. That is a good example of how setting the wrong metrics can have the wrong effect.