Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

As I mentioned previously, I am not a member of this committee but I really wanted to be here today, not just as the convenor of the Ireland-Romania inter-parliamentary friendship group but also because I have met Ambassador Sochaska a number of times and I think the work that is being done by many countries in eastern Europe but particularly Poland and Romania is outstanding. It is awful that it takes something like this for us to acknowledge and appreciate just how amazing both those countries are along with others. It is fair to say that both ambassadors are the representatives of two of our largest new Irish communities. We will have a census on 3 April but I think the number of Romanians and Poles who have made their lives in Ireland is in excess of 100,000, respectively, and they contribute in towns, villages and cities all over the country. In the same way as Irish people went abroad, they are here and are very much appreciated. I thank the ambassadors not just for all the work they do in respect of this crisis but for all the work they do for their communities in Ireland and all around the world.

I acknowledge the enormous response. I did not appreciate that 1 million Ukrainians were already living in Poland. Is it fair to say that quite a number of the Ukrainians who have entered Poland are living with those Ukrainian families or people with whom they would have family or historic connections? I would like to think we would all do it if people were living in England and we had evacuate here. We probably would not go to England if we were being evacuated but the ambassadors know what I mean. We would go to where our families were and that is possibly a reason for what is happening in Poland. In respect of the level of support the Romanian and Polish governments are giving to those families and individuals to integrate them, we will be doing the same here and it is very important that we do so.

Poland and Romania are former Eastern Bloc countries that were behind the Iron Curtain and are more familiar with the Soviet-Russian influence than we would be. I am not taking any side of the argument but I think Ambassador Sochaska might have said "both Poland and Romania are NATO members, thank God." People of a particular persuasion are saying it is all NATO's fault but would it be fair to say that if Ukraine had joined NATO, it would either have precipitated the row earlier or the row would not be happening at all and the Russians may not have gone into Ukraine because it would have brought about all the associated challenges? Hopefully, that is a reason why the Russians will not go any further.

I was struck by the points about visiting Romania and Moldova. Certain people have gone over and have been criticised for grandstanding and looking for publicity but the ambassadors are suggesting that it is useful to highlight what is happening on the ground and what needs to happen in a humanitarian context in Romania and Poland and maybe on the border to see the sheer horror and terror. We have so much social media that we did not have 50, 60 or even 20 years ago really to highlight the absolute devastation. We all see it every night on television and the sheer extent of it - the idea that 3 million people have been displaced. That is 60% of the population of this State. I know it is a smaller percentage of a big country but the idea that 60% of this country would just leave and go somewhere else is mind-boggling. If there is value in any of us travelling without putting a burden on the system, I would be more than willing to participate or get involved in something just to expose and put on show all the good work that is being done but equally the horror of war. A lot of it has been covered in terms of what else we can do but if there is something the ambassadors have not thought about or that has not been mentioned already, could they let us know? We spoke about pharmaceuticals, money and the fact that people are generally quite well-educated and resourceful and were living in a First World country not even three weeks ago.

Ryanair has a very significant operation in Poland - what was called Ryanair Sun and now is called Buzz. A lot of Ryanair planes were re-registered from the Irish register to the Polish register. Again, this is not about an airline trying to make a bit more money flying people home on Christmas Eve.

It is a war situation. I would like to think those at the top of Ryanair appreciate this is not a situation to use an algorithm that dictates that when the plane is three quarters full, the price is banged up. It is a completely different thing. Let it be the case that Ryanair steps up, puts on flights and works out with the Red Cross, other agencies and the Polish, Romanian or Moldovan Governments that it will fly people from A to B at zero or minimal cost. If I can get a flight to Cyprus for €10 under the algorithm, Ryanair should be able to fly a significant number of people to areas of refuge at no cost. These people do not want to have to travel. They would much prefer to remain in Ukraine.

I do not have many questions but I ask our guests for their thoughts on NATO and Ukraine. They may not be able to comment on that. I thank them, their countries and their citizens living in Ireland for all they do for us and for their help in this conflict.