Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I agree with Deputy Cairns. I have also heard from and met people who were adopted and subject to illegal birth registration. I have heard their very real and deep frustration with processes and how they were treated as individuals. I am very aware of that. I have said in these hearings on a number of occasions that we must change the culture in these organisations. We will do this in a number of ways.

First, we must amend the law because the law does not facilitate the proper release of information. That is why we are bringing forward this legislation and we believe it crucial in beginning that change. We are bringing forward guidelines to ensure and copper-fasten that culture of release of information and the presumption of release. That culture will be reinforced through the process of the implementation group led by my Department, ensuring alignment between our departmental review of the open release of information and that this is replicated across Tusla and the AAI.

This is also supported by resources. We have discussed in the context of the budget an extra €3 million for Tusla specifically to support the implementation of the information and tracing Bill this year and an extra €1 million for the AAI, again to do that work. Both of those bodies are hiring relevant staff and securing new expertise within their ranks to implement what is happening here.

there is also the provision in the legislation for a review of its operation. It is entirely possible that in future a decision could be taken to entirely remove the provision of tracing from certain bodies. The point I made in particular when we discussed this on Second Stage related to the suggestion of a creation of a new agency. I know the recommendation was made in good faith by the committee but to attempt that now would delay the availability of the provisions in this legislation.

In changing the law and culture and by providing the resources, we can change the experience that adopted people have in terms of their engagement with Tusla. I know the committee has had Mr. Bernard Gloster before it but I do not know if members discussed this particular point with him. I regularly discuss this matter with Mr. Gloster both in the context of our quarterly meetings and, for various reasons, when I am on the phone to him regularly. This is a core matter. It may be useful for the committee to hear from him as chief executive on the work he is doing within the organisation to bring about this culture change. I know many adopted people are not reassured and will not be reassured until they see change. Perhaps it is the same for the committee. It might be useful, rather than hearing it from me, to hear it directly from the chief executive.

I made a point regarding the tabling of an amendment on Report Stage and Deputy Bacik is correct. Illegal birth registration is extremely hard to prove. The reason is it is an illegal act and the person or persons perpetrating that act would have done their best to cover their tracks. I do not know why but the people who engaged in this illegal act in St. Patrick's Guild did not cover their tracks but drew attention to the acts on the cover of the files by indicating adoption for birth. That allowed the investigation to take place.

We will table an amendment that will expand section 33, allowing a Minister to request the review of files in certain circumstances. This is primarily dealing with cases where an individual has no idea he or she is subject to an illegal birth registration. As the Deputy knows, the legislation provides a route for people with a suspicion to go through but where Tusla, in particular, identifies a file about which it has very significant concerns, the amendment will allow a Minister direct the agency to undertake further tracing.