Ms Stella Griffin:

I might address the question on support staff. I look after predominantly administrative staff in the technological universities, the IOTs and the ETBs. We got that name changed to professional, managerial and support staff, PMSS, because it was a big bugbear for our members that there were academic and non-academic staff, which in itself suggests the latter were more important. Much of what has gone on since the austerity years, and is still continuing citing the ECF, relates to specific-purpose contracts, and there is an awful lot of outsourcing of agency staff because of the ECF. Trying to establish the extent of the cost being incurred by the employer was difficult and, as members can imagine, it was quite expensive compared with direct labour, which is what we are advocating for. Under fixed-term contracts, members who worked tirelessly had some security under the legislation whereby after four years, they could become permanent and have security of tenure, whereas in the case of specific-purpose contracts, they did not. There is an awful lot that has to be done in that regard.

By May, five TUs will have been established. This is an exciting time for many students who, in the first instance, would not have had access to the universities but now they do, at world-renowned institutions. It is important that rather than throwing money at the issue, there should be engagement with the relevant stakeholders, including all staff and us representing the members, to see what to do. I am an advocate of the idea that if you want to know how to do a job, you should ask the people who do it. Let us slow down and get this right. Let us carry out due diligence that will make us proud. Many rural institutions were set up because of local socioeconomic factors and afforded an opportunity for students to gain access to third level, and now they have university status. Deputy Ó Ríordáin asked how we can make this political argument. I do not think there is one person in a household who would not advocate for his or her student children to get the best opportunity possible. We have that now with these TUs. We need to fund them in such a way that Ireland can be proud and the students who qualify will receive recognised, world-renowned university degrees.