Mr. Tim Cullinan:

That is an excellent question. We need a system that will work. There are four sectors involved, because the potato sector is similar. It relies on the retail market. I spoke to people from the potato sector yesterday. They are in a similar situation to the one being discussed here. Last year, our concern was about liquid milk. It also relies on the retail sector. The Senator is right that the system is broken. We have to find a solution to that.

The UTP directive in itself will not resolve this issue. I have been clear from the start that a number of things need to happen and the Minister bringing forward primary legislation relating to a regulator is one part of it. The UTP is a softer approach but we need the legislation, which is why I would like a commitment from this committee around that legislation and that this person will have the powers. The Senator is right. There are three actors in the chain - ourselves, the processors and the retailers. We need clarity once and for all. All of the people around this table this evening have been working to try to establish where the margin is for a long number of years and we have an opportunity now. We need the help of these Houses. The first thing we need is legislation around this regulator.

Regarding the second part of it, this has happened recently with the banning of below-cost selling of alcohol and using alcohol to get consumers into stores. We cannot and will not be allowed to continue with the practice because we will not survive. The sectors we represent will not survive if we continue with the practice of below-cost selling of our produce. From the day discounters came to this country, the practice of using our produce as a loss leader started. They put photographs of farmers inside shops and then discounted our produce.

The Senator mentioned funding. The Government must put funding in place. This funding will be used very well if we can get a solution to this and we do not end up in the current situation where pig farmers are losing anything up to €40 per pig and poultry farmers risk going out of business. We have already seen a mass exodus from the horticulture sector. We have to make this work for the survival of these sectors.