Mr. Tim Kirby:

Absolutely. For any procedure like chopping, there must be disincentives around that regardless of where the people see the dogs, be it out in public, at a show or wherever else. If there is a controlled environment where there are a lot of dogs, it should be possible that the area is regulated to some extent. I know from discussing this with many dog breeders that, for example, for the French bulldog as a breed standard, it is no longer normal or acceptable for those dogs to have short noses. Therefore, if any of those dogs are seen at shows, or if any judge is seen to award that dog a rosette to say it is a really good dog, and it does not conform to what is now acceptable as a breed, then there are implications. Likewise, we need to do the same thing for ear cropping. If any dog is in an arena or any public space and has ear cropping, or it is suspected the dog was ear cropped, the key stakeholders need to call that out and act on it straight away. I would absolutely agree with that. The majority of people are members of the public who are observing dogs from a distance in the public arena, so that fits in with it as well.

I agree with Senator Boylan that the phased-out approach is the way we are going to do it. With many of these changes we are discussing in the different areas, it is going to be a phased-out approach. It almost has to be done in tandem with public education. If the two are done in parallel, we are more likely to get a successful outcome but, as I said, we have to educate the public, particularly about ear cropping. For example, Dogs Trust did a very effective campaign in schools to educate children. Many things with dogs are visual. The Cut the Crop campaign from the British Veterinary Association was pushing it strongly and striking imagery was used, which was very effective. Dogs are very amenable to visual imagery and this helps retain things in people's minds.