Mr. Tim Kirby:

Absolutely, I think the concept that one single Department would take control is something that should urgently be done. It makes absolute sense. It would reduce time lags, drift and the lack of certain things being done according to the demand for them. If that could be prioritised, I would see it as top of the list. Many things will stem organically from that as a result, so it would be a very positive move.

I agree with the Deputy. There are two ends of the spectrum and there are many issues in between, but we have to start somewhere. We will not have everything resolved in 2022 but we have to start somewhere. For example, the Deputy referred to the issue of dogs that look abnormal. Many of these dogs are coming from units that are breeding 300 and 400 bitches and they are breeding them endlessly throughout their lives - they are literally churning them out. They are commodities and, as I said, they are just seen as a passport to wealth. These animals are a lot more than that. We need to start having that discussion around how it can be acceptable in society that 300 or more bitches could be kept in any facility. It goes back to the previous point about the number six in some of these establishments. All of that needs to be debated. We need to get to the granular level of detail to see what makes sense here, what is going to effect change for the lives of these animals, and then start building that up into something that can be put into practice. There should be a phased approach to all of this. With one Department and a phased approach taking bite-size chunks, a lot of progress can be made very quickly. I am convinced of that.

To go back to the point raised by the Deputy on the number of dogs being relinquished, I know from the fantastic work Dogs Trust Ireland is doing that it is bursting at the seams at the moment with dogs being returned by people who got them during lockdown. What that highlights is the value of dogs but also that we need to start educating people before they get a dog in the first place. As I said in my presentation, it is not a simple click and collect service. This is a sentient living being and that has to be taken into account as well. Part of what PetBond does is to make sure people are in the right stage of their lives and are educated before they get a pet in the first place. We have to be aware of this. If something else happens in society in the future, are we going to see the same insatiable demand by people for pets? They are a very good fallback and a very good emotional comfort, but it is not acceptable that when normal life resumes, the pet is usually the first individual within the family that is going to suffer the consequence. Unfortunately, we are seeing that transpire at the moment.

The Deputy raised a point about people performing various procedures with regard to insemination. These people have a little knowledge about it, and there is probably nothing more dangerous in life than somebody with a little knowledge who thinks they know a lot more than they actually do. People invariably do not have any formal qualifications. They think that once they have observed somebody doing something remotely similar, they can have a go and do it themselves. I would not say there is a specific profile of any one individual but there are certainly people with very basic knowledge who are attending such procedures.

With regard to the veterinary medicines, if there are facilities like this out there that are breeding huge numbers of dogs, without a shadow of a doubt, we have to ask how are these people breeding so many so frequently? Would insemination not be a lot easier, given it is a lot more cost efficient and time efficient? What is going on within some of the units that are breeding large numbers? That question has to be asked, as well as where the medicines around those units are coming from. I would certainly consider importation is the main route there.

These are all areas where, with one single division and one Department doing this in phases and bite-size chunks, we could target those areas where we could get a result and then go on sequentially to the next issue. In that way, we could make a lot of progress on these issues.