Dr. Joseph Ryan:

To echo what Mr. Miley has just said and I will not labour the points, we have pressed for the publication, as has the Deputy, of what has come back from Europe. It would make for a much better conversation.

Mr. Miley mentioned a package. I do not doubt for one moment there is a great amount of work going on between the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on this. We have indications but have no definite news on that. It raises the question as to whether we are going to have a decision or a debate. This is such a complex area and is so important for the country that we need an inclusive debate around this.

The genius of the Irish people is that we want a Rolls-Royce service with a Lada outlay, and this goes to the heart of the Deputy’s question. The truth is that our system, which was acknowledged by Deputy Farrell, has done very well, but we should think of what it could do with a little bit more. That is always the way.

This goes back to the point Deputy Farrell made and that I made in my own submission, which is that it is very much about prioritisation here. When it comes down to the hard politics of it, looking at housing, the health services and education, it is a question of how we make our case.

Going back to the Deputy's question on the metrics of this, Mr. Miley and I could possibly do some work on it and come back to the Deputy to try to give her some substantial ammunition on this.

I am very happy to do that. This speaks to the Deputy's point as to how this funding issue is to be reconciled. The truth is that this is a pot of funding that is not sufficient, with an increasing number of students. There is a move to encourage students into other areas, including apprenticeships, which is absolutely correct, further education, etc., but students will vote as they vote. Overriding all this are the sustainable development goals, particularly goal 4, which refers to access and equity for everyone. Then we are talking about regional sustainability etc. It is a complex mix and it seems to me to invite a fuller conversation.