Mr. Gerard O'Brien:

That exclusion was not directly raised with us.

On the last point, in terms of finance for people with disabilities, it would be worthwhile for policymakers and legislators to look at something like a loan guarantee scheme. When people with disabilities come to MABS, we will look at their complete budget, including income versus expenditure, etc. Their capacity to afford a loan will be laid out in front of them. They may have the capacity to afford a loan. Of course, I would advocate interest-free loans for those people. Why should people pay a poverty premium? I hate using that phrase. Even the 12.5% interest rate on the It Makes Sense loans could certainly be looked at in terms of a subsidy. Lenders look at risk; that is their job. Certainly, just to make the point again, some form of loan guarantee scheme or a central fund for people with disabilities who need transport could be looked at. If they come to MABS, they know that they will get a good heads-up on what their affordability is. For those who can afford it, something like an interest-free loan scheme, coupled with a guarantee would be-----